tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6274381712003139086.post7748113208898643289..comments2023-10-28T05:10:27.300-05:00Comments on Atheism Analyzed: The Intellectual Link between Atheism and the Political LeftUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6274381712003139086.post-53852678098280170122014-04-14T17:01:49.238-05:002014-04-14T17:01:49.238-05:00Petrus, welcome, and thanks for your comment.
If ...Petrus, welcome, and thanks for your comment.<br /><br />If you read through the blog sufficiently I think you will find that I have never denied that Atheists have only one thing in common: the denial of theism. Other than that, they can and do follow many paths, one of which is to co-opt existing moral systems such as Judeo-Christianity even while rejecting the source of moral authority for those systems.<br /><br />For any and every Atheist there cannot be any source of moral authority outside oneself; even if the Atheist accepts the moral principles of some other human, it is the individual Atheist himself who has adjudged the principles to be correct, or at least workable. Personal moral authority is built into Atheism for that reason.<br /><br />The other characteristics such as elitism and Leftism tumble out of that issue. Whether a specific Atheist takes the ensuing steps is not the issue. The issue is that the steps do ensue, flowing naturally out of Atheism, and many - very many - Atheists do take them.<br /><br />As for categorical imperatives, I suspect that, when pushed into ethical dilemmas, the Atheists who claim such imperatives will be found to actually be relativist. Try it and let me know.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15754447145433452423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6274381712003139086.post-15493715367600328842014-04-14T14:09:01.426-05:002014-04-14T14:09:01.426-05:00Stan,
I've been reading your blog for a few da...Stan,<br />I've been reading your blog for a few days now, and am impressed. Your description of atheistic motivations, with regards to the Dawkinsian subset at least, is one of the most succinct and enlightening that I have ever read.<br /><br />At the same time, while I am not an Atheist myself, and even find many of them exceptionally annoying, in fairness to them I must object to the idea that it is supposedly impossible for an Atheist to hold or believe in moral categorical imperatives, without belief in Yahweh, specifically. While it is true that they are rare, I have known a sufficient number of Atheists with a genuine (and in some cases, actually more robust and consistent, in practice, than Christians themselves) moral code, to know otherwise.<br /><br />Along the same lines, I also do not believe that your description of Atheists here, applies to <b><i>all</i></b> Atheists. It does apply to some, and it might well even apply to most, but it does not apply to all.Petrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00637690033344755505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6274381712003139086.post-40404003083866087022011-09-15T19:59:15.023-05:002011-09-15T19:59:15.023-05:00Stan writes: With relativist ethics being in place...Stan writes: <i>With relativist ethics being in place, for the Atheist / Materialist there is no need for absolute morals. Thus a person is not considered adequately educated or evolved if that person still holds onto superstitions such as a source for absolutes, because absolutes do not exist for the Atheist / Materialist. ... One unintended consequence of the denial of absolutes is that such a denial also must apply to Truth, which is by definition absolute - incorrigibly absolute - and completely intolerant of fallacy. So Truth cannot exist in the artificially restricted Materialist reality of the Atheist.</i><br /><br />That’s quite a leap from “there is no need for absolute morals” to the loony idea “Truth cannnot exist”.<br /><br />Of course truth exists for materialists.<br /><br />Frex: Young-earth creationists think our planet is 6,000 to 10,000 years old. Scientists know our planet to be around 4.5 billion years old. Regardless of what anybody thinks, an absolute truth exists, a correct age of the earth in reality.<br /><br />Absolute morals don’t. Before conscious beings began to exist and form values, the universe was devoid of morality. But I do not think “all ethics are man-made”; other animals display ethical behavior too.<br /><br /><i>Atheism inevitably leads to the idea that the Atheist’s mind is the highest form of intelligence in the known universe.</i><br /><br />You don't have to be smart or elite to be an atheist; everyone in the world was born one. Even Sarah Palin was once an atheist.<br /><br />Your bizarre vilification of egalitarians and socialists as elitists refutes itself without any need for me to engage it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13113358989259865484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6274381712003139086.post-78456078520255579412009-09-15T14:50:57.145-05:002009-09-15T14:50:57.145-05:00I have responded to anonymous's concerns in a...I have responded to <i>anonymous's </i> concerns in a new post today.<br /><br />StanStanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14860850768269357636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6274381712003139086.post-66140432408110315842009-09-15T10:53:28.105-05:002009-09-15T10:53:28.105-05:00"I consider it an absolute that anyone who (c..."I consider it an absolute that anyone who (cheerfully or otherwise) "claims any statement he makes to be the voice of reason, regardless of its coherence or fallacious content" is using neither logic nor reason."<br /><br />So......on what grounds do you draw this conclusion?<br /><br />SteveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6274381712003139086.post-85125493162063896722009-09-14T20:45:49.392-05:002009-09-14T20:45:49.392-05:00What is the source of your higher principles that ...What is the <i>source</i> of your higher principles that gives them absolute authority such that you humble yourself to it?Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14860850768269357636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6274381712003139086.post-35094439931756186712009-09-14T15:42:42.671-05:002009-09-14T15:42:42.671-05:00You wrote: "For the Atheist / Materialist / E...You wrote: "For the Atheist / Materialist / Evolutionist, the ethic to be used in any given situation depends on what that particular situation requires, <i>and nothing else</i>." (emphasis mine)<br /><br />Nope. Wrong. The rest of your definition builds on this logic, and is therefore invalid.<br /><br />I happen to be a libertarian atheist. Libertarianism is based on principles, among them the sovereignty of the individual over his own life and limited government intrusion applied to all individuals, even those with whom one disagrees. Libertarian ethics are based not on the situation but on the application of these guiding principles.<br /><br />Lefties tend to think of libertarians as far right. Righties tend to thing of libertarians as far left. They are both wrong. Left and right are just different philosophies about how and when to assert government control over the lives of individuals. Liberalism has been for many years moving toward socialism, which is the polar opposite of libertarianism.<br /><br />You wrote: "Because reason and logic are relative for the Atheist / Materialist, he is able to cheerfully claim any statement he makes to be the voice of reason, regardless of its coherence or fallacious content."<br /><br />I consider it an <b>absolute</b> that anyone who (cheerfully or otherwise) "claims any statement he makes to be the voice of reason, regardless of its coherence or fallacious content" is using neither logic nor reason.<br /><br />The logical leap you've made here is the presumption that, absent god, the atheist places <i>himself and his whims</i> as the ultimate (or only) authority, unwilling to be fettered by such bounds as logic and reason, or for that matter, reality. Nothing could be further from the truth.<br /><br />Reason and logic are not relative for the atheist. There may be some atheists who think that way, and no doubt some Christians who think that way as well, but there's nothing inherent in atheism that denies higher principles.<br /><br />Your analysis is flawed because it is based on false presumtions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com