The worst US Federal Administration scandal in memory, including involvement in the deaths of peace officers in two countries, is still unreported in much of the Leftist media. The LA Times is taking it to heart, though, and is pursuing the ATF and DOJ “Fast and Furious” program of giving guns to outlaws. Reported now is that some of the Mexican cartel members might be paid by the US government as informers. On last night's coverage, this deadly scandal was not reported by either NBC or PBS on their prime time news. I don’t know about the other news outlets. But imagine if this had been done under Bush…
If the Congressional investigations can force Holder to take responsibility for what was done under his auspices (and after all, Bush has been blamed for everything done under his administration, plus several years beyond…), then the national media will be forced to give it at least a head nod. Undoubtedly Obama will take zero responsibility for it, just as he has done with the economy. Perhaps even "Fast and Furious" can be blamed on Bush, too.
The Republicans should take this issue and run it to ground. It is actually not just an illegal action by the Feds, it is an insanely stupid and immoral, murderous action. But the highly morally sensitive Dems are taking this opportunity, albeit quietly, to foster an illegitimate case for increased gun control, even though no amount of gun legislation would have had any influence on what the Feds did in “Fast and Furious”. Once again it is the Leftist irrationality in positions of dangerous power that produced this bloody saga, not private citizens with guns.
19 comments:
Just so I'm clear, do you think guns were not being purchased in the US and being used in the drug war both in the US and in Mexico before the ATF set up this operation with the express goal of tracking such activity?
I have no data on that; the dealers who were a part of this scam would not have sold these weapons because they are tracked. But they were forced to sell them by the ATF - or so it appears from current testimony.
Prior data did indicate that the scare numbers put out there by Hillary were wildly off, with the huge share of weapons in the cartel's hands coming in from So. America - but I don't have the figures in front of me.
Is your point that because it was happening before, even to a slight extent and illegally, that makes it OK for the DOJ/ATF to do it en masse? Seems that the DOJ/ATF should be stopping such sales, not creating and implementing them.
Keeping that in mind, how do you feel about gun control in general? Where do you stand on the assault weapons ban that was lifted by Republicans, allowing guns like this to be sold legally within the US?
OK a quickie google turns up this info: 17% of arms seized en Mejico are of American origin, according to ATF figures. The 90% which Dems bandy about is for the number of guns sent by Mexican authorities to the US Feds for source verification: 90% are verified US guns... BUT the Mexican authorities do not return all or even most guns to the US because the source for the majority of weapons seized in Mexico is obviously not the USA.
Automatic weapons found in Mexico do not originate in the USA because they are illegal here and thus are not available at gun stores or gun shows (contrary to Leftist inuendo). It is almost impossible to turn a semi-auto into an auto; much easier to get the auto on the Mexican black market.
The sources for the remaining weapons not sourced from the USA are outlined in the article. One interesting source is the 150,000 defecting soldiers from the Mexican army, some of whom keep their weapons when they defect. Why not, it's extra cash in their pockets when they put them on the black market.
The guns sold in the USA are not the desirable fully automatic weapons preferred by cartel killers, although like any gun or pipe bomb, IED they can kill.
Because the units sold in the USA are not fully automatic, the only reason to call them "assault weapons" is because they look mean. In fact a semi-auto AK47 clone shoots a relatively small cartridge, at least compared with semi-automatic 30.06 type rifles.
Actual full-auto assault weapons, like those available to police, armed forces, and bad guys are already illegal to us law abiding citizens. They are not sold here, and we don't have them.
The ban on actual assault weapons exists. Any more bans would be on bad-looking but not fully-automatic versions.
So I am against any more bans. I am however for legalization of drugs in order to put the cartels out of business, if that is even possible.
Plus I think everyone should own a semi-automatic and be fully trained on how to use it; women should carry one in their purse.
I should have linked the article and the information that the grenades and RPGs also do not come from the USA.
Article:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/
another update on the data at factcheck.org concludes that the 17% calculated by FOX was an underestimate. Factcheck's estimate is 36%. It adds up to thousands of guns retrieved but not thousands of assault weapons: semi-autos, not autos.
Still the answer should be to disrupt the market for illegal drugs by making them legal, not disarming the law-abiders in the USA.
Why is it that the Left so fears the law abiding citizens in the USA (while shipping to the Mexican cartel killers)?
Just so I understand you properly...
Liberals are horrible for monitoring guns purchased by legal means being trafficked to drug cartels who you claim don't want them, but buy them and use them anyway, and that we'd all be safer if we were all armed...
And you see nothing odd about this? There's nothing strange to you about simultaneously encouraging gun ownership and condemning liberals whose study put more guns on the street?
No you don't understand properly. I did not say or imply that,
"Liberals are horrible for monitoring guns purchased by legal means being trafficked to drug cartels"...
The Leftists forced the sales.
"to drug cartels who you claim don't want them, but buy them and use them anyway...
Did not say they don't want them; said that they were not the fully-automatic assault weapons which the Left demonizes, nor which are preferred by mass murdering cartels - which get the full auto from elsewhere, not the USA.
"..and that we'd all be safer if we were all armed..."
Well, not you. I could see laws against Leftys and Dems owning guns, knives, forks, rocks, table salt and other chemicals... maybe sharp pencils... Not that they are a hazard to the rest of us, but that they would be a hazard to themselves.
"And you see nothing odd about this?
I certainly see your misconstrual as odd...
"There's nothing strange to you about simultaneously encouraging gun ownership and condemning liberals whose study put more guns on the street?"
You flummoxed the last part, which should read, "liberals who knowingly and purposefully put guns directly into the hands of murdering cartels".
See the difference? Why do you apologize for the bloody actions of the Leftist Feds who did the obvious: purposely engaged in killing, which they described as "breaking eggs to make an omelet" and even the omelet was not made.
There is no reason whatsoever to connect the illegitimate actions of the ATF/DOJ to the legal sale of firearms to law abiding citizens. Law abiding citizens did not do this.
*shrug*
There's more guns on the street, you should be happier.
I've been slowly developing a rule. The more someone rants about "Leftists" running the U.S.A., the less they understand about world politics. You can call this "Fireworx's law".
"There's more guns on the street, you should be happier."
Pure cynicism.
Fireworx,
Insults are not arguments. Do you have a defense for your Leftists? Or just Ad Hominems?
Pure cynicism.
You misspelled "conservatism."
You're a conservative? In what galaxy?
You're a conservative? In what galaxy?
This wasn't directed at me but I'd like to point out that the U.S. of A. is not the entire world.
I've lived in Socialist countries and Liberal Democracies. The politics of both parties are to the right of most parties in other countries. Hell, the Democratic Party is considered to be to the right of the Conservative Party in parents country.
Ever heard of the Overton Window? You've moved so far right that conservative looks like liberalism.
Actually it would seem that a constitutionalist and traditional liberal (myself) would be a constant over time, while the relativists shift ever more Leftward. How fast the shift Leftward occurs is a function of how much braking power the c/tl's can apply, and in a relativistic, culturally corrupted environment, that is less and less as time wears on. Certainly Republicans and Democrats are now much further Left than they were 20, 30, 50 years ago. How the parties relate to Europe or third world is irrelevant; how they relate to the freedoms granted individuals and restrictions placed on the federal government in the US Constitution is the only non-relativist metric. While the Republicans pay lip service only to the constitution, and the Democrats, to quote Pelosi ("Constitution? You serious? Hahahahaha..."), the principles of the constitution have long been marginalized. The Tenth Amendment has been conquered and disabled by the Commerce Clause, as misinterpreted by a relativist, left-shifting court.
The Overton Window is just another version of Hegel's thesis/antithesis/synthesis. Thesis is the base; antithesis makes an absurd demand; synthesis is the compromise between thesis and antithesis. The compromise moves the thesis from its origin to a new point, closer to antithesis. Then, after the compromise the process is repeated, indefinitely, moving thesis further and further from its original position.
Thesis is the US Constitution.
Antithesis is anti-liberal demands.
Synthesis is Leftward drift.
This is why political compromise is always toward antithesis and away from thesis: away from traditional liberalism, and toward totalitarianism via socialist "useful idiots".
Nothing new under the sun...
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