Redistribution to the Perpetual Victims: Leftism in Post-Constitutional America
(CNSNews.com) - The top 40 percent of households by before-tax income actually paid 106.2 percent of the nation’s net income taxes in 2010, according to a new study by the Congressional Budget Office.
At the same time, households in the bottom 40 percent took in an average of $18,950 in what the CBO called “government transfers” in 2010.
Taxpayers in the top 40 percent of households were able to pay more than 100 percent of net federal income taxes in 2010 because Americans in the bottom 40 percent actually paid negative income taxes, according to the CBO study entitled, “The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2010.”
“When refundable tax credits, such as the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit, exceed the other federal tax liabilities of the households in an income group, those households are said to have a negative average tax rate,” said the CBO study.
And,
“Much of the progressivity of the federal tax system derives from the individual income tax,” said the report. “In 2010, the lowest quintile’s average rate for the individual income tax was -9.2 percent and the second income quintile’s rate was -2.3 percent.”
22 comments:
May I ask what's the problem with this?
Especially keeping in mind that part:
"These transfers included, among other things, benefits from unemployment insurance, Medicare and Social Security, as well as from means-tested programs such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps), and Medicaid."
Hugo,
Are you serious??
Yes, totally. Maybe I am the one missing something here but I don't see how it could be otherwise...
There are tons of people who have 0, or close to 0, income for various reasons. These people receive benefits from unemployment insurance, Medicare and/or Social Security as the article describes. Hence, if we take the taxes they pay and subtract the benefit, how could it not possible be negative?
Taxes Paid = Income * X% - Benefits
How can 'Taxes Paid' be positive if Income = 0?
So you see no problem with 40% of the population being on the government dole? With the governmental establishment of incentives for NOT supporting or not improving oneself? With government interference in the economy which creates only non-producing government jobs, which in turn perpetuates the establishment of incentives for taking from the government rather than participating in self-improvement and a more productive occupation? (I can go on and on...).
We are not taliking about 40% widows and orphans and disabled here.
Now, add to that the non-productive government which stays fairly constant around 7%, and you have 47% who are on the take from the other 53%, who must produce enough to support the takers.
Taking from the productive and giving to the non-productive has long been established as governmental prerogative, but it did not start out this way. It is soft communism, without the dictatorship. But now with the imperial presidency who can issue fiats ex-congressionally... and who can designate and kill American citizens and brag about it, and use federal agencies for his political punishment programs...
And with mal-educated citizens, 40% of which see no problems with either the One or the federal programmatic traps... not to mention allowing the illegal entry of millions of potential leftist taker voters, why, it is all over but the shouting.
The American carcass will be consumed by the parasites which are encouraged by the carcass itself, and will import ever more.
Oh I do see a problem, but not the same as you apparently. What I do see is 40% of the population being freaking poor!
You are right that not all of this 40% are jobless widows, orphans or disabled. However...
First, all of these people with $0 income do make the average go down, so what do you expect the statistics to show?
Second, what's crazy is that as part of this 40%, especially the 2nd quintile, you do have a lot of people who do work but make so little that they don't end up paying taxes after applying base deductions that apply to all, and other things like credits for kids or medical expenses, etc... You think they should pay MORE taxes?
Third, what incentives for 'NOT supporting or not improving oneself' are you talking about? Social security and unemployment payments are so low! Perhaps my standards are too high but I think rich countries can offer a much better safety net with adjustment based on age and working capability (we all agree that healthy young adults should not rely on it obviously!)
Fourth, the government interference is actually too little in at least 1 area in my opinion: minimum wage. How can you expect someone to live with $7 to $10 bucks per hour... and this is in no way the government taking from the rich and giving to the poor; that's simply setting some minimum bar so that the poorest individuals get a better chance while the free market still rules, which is great! I don't care if my burger at McDonald's cost $5 instead of $4 because the minimum wage doubled. If McDonald's has a better burger than Burger King, they will thrive anyway...
"...non-productive government which stays fairly constant around 7%, and you have 47% who are on the take from the other 53%, who must produce enough to support the takers.
Taking from the productive and giving to the non-productive... "
The 47% you talk about is NOT all 'non-productive', especially since you decided to arbitrarily include all (some?) government employees... (not sure exactly who's included since I read stats that vary a lot depending on people like Postal Service or Military...).
This 47% actually includes a majority of working people. Some of them simply make too little to pay taxes, or don't work for something 'good' according to you. Who is supposed to process passport applications? tax returns? government's finance books? (insert any other 'non-productive' government job you think is useless)? That's all non-productive evil people who should not receive money from the 53%? Absurd.
"It is soft communism, without the dictatorship."
This is so far from communism; your statement made me laugh so hard ;) This is capitalism, the BEST economic model! The fact that the top % makes so much when the bottom makes so little is proof that it is anything but communism and its utopist idea of equality for all. I hope you get what I am saying: I think communism is horrible and cannot possible work, but not having proper social safety nets and rules that avoid excess make Capitalism terrible for those who start with a slow start in life.
...40% of which see no problems with...
It's not like only the 'productive' ones are complaining about the 'non-productive'. Here we are, both in that 'productive' slice (I assume) and we disagree. I don't blame the bottom 40% but you do. I see completely different problems than you see.
Your other comments not related to the issue are duly noted. May I point out that it's very ironic how you make yourself sound like such a victim while simultaneously labeling the 'others' as victimizing themselves? You are the one freaking out because you see your country as going down the drain, you are the one complaining, feeling victimized, wanting things to stay 'your' way without all the influx of non-white immigrants, etc... you clearly label yourself as being not-in-control and victim of the changes happening!
Hugo,
You said a lot, considering how busy you are. I have hit a sensitive zone, I see.
”Oh I do see a problem, but not the same as you apparently. What I do see is 40% of the population being freaking poor!”
They all have groceries, housing, cars, TV’s, video games, and booze. In most countries they’d be classified as rich.
”You are right that not all of this 40% are jobless widows, orphans or disabled. However...
First, all of these people with $0 income do make the average go down, so what do you expect the statistics to show?”
I’m not criticizing the statistics, Hugo, I’m criticizing the enabling of the takers, using the assets of the makers.
”Second, what's crazy is that as part of this 40%, especially the 2nd quintile, you do have a lot of people who do work but make so little that they don't end up paying taxes after applying base deductions that apply to all, and other things like credits for kids or medical expenses, etc... You think they should pay MORE taxes?”
I think those jobs should not be occupied by heads of households; they should be entry level jobs for teens.
”Third, what incentives for 'NOT supporting or not improving oneself' are you talking about? Social security and unemployment payments are so low! Perhaps my standards are too high but I think rich countries can offer a much better safety net with adjustment based on age and working capability (we all agree that healthy young adults should not rely on it obviously!)”
Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme. First off, it was set up with the idea that Americans are too stupid to create a retirement package for themselves (then they were stupidified by government schooling). Second, the US government stole all the money from the Social Security account long ago. Now the Social Security pay out depends on income from the not-yet-retired workers paying into it at a rate high enough to pay those who have retired. Third, it was supposed to supplement; now the “poor” depend on it totally. Fourth, the context of “rich countries” has nothing to do with the corrupt political theft which always – always accompanies government give-away programs. What has meaning is the demographics required to support it.
Example: ObamaCare will fail because the young will not sign up for it, and the Left stupidly depended upon that income in order to float the pre-existing conditions. They can’t inflate their way out of that.
”Fourth, the government interference is actually too little in at least 1 area in my opinion: minimum wage. How can you expect someone to live with $7 to $10 bucks per hour... and this is in no way the government taking from the rich and giving to the poor; that's simply setting some minimum bar so that the poorest individuals get a better chance while the free market still rules, which is great! I don't care if my burger at McDonald's cost $5 instead of $4 because the minimum wage doubled. If McDonald's has a better burger than Burger King, they will thrive anyway...
There should be no minimum wage, period. If a job produces value, it would be paid at that value. The minimum wage inflates the value of a job beyond its value, thereby inflating the cost/price to the consumer as inflation due to artificial (phony) valuing. This raises consumer cost (inflationary) and thus everyone gets a raise due to inflation, leaving the lowest wage earners back where they started. Minimum wage is another Ponzi Scheme with no end to its inflationary effect, and no benefit to the minimum wage earner.
"...non-productive government which stays fairly constant around 7%, and you have 47% who are on the take from the other 53%, who must produce enough to support the takers.
Taking from the productive and giving to the non-productive... "
The 47% you talk about is NOT all 'non-productive', especially since you decided to arbitrarily include all (some?) government employees... (not sure exactly who's included since I read stats that vary a lot depending on people like Postal Service or Military...).
Neither the military nor the Postal workers contribute to the GDP. The remaining workers should be self-encouraged to increase their value to productivity such that they are able to join the middle class.
”This 47% actually includes a majority of working people.”
Feel free to support that statement with facts.
’Some of them simply make too little to pay taxes, or don't work for something 'good' according to you. Who is supposed to process passport applications? tax returns? government's finance books? (insert any other 'non-productive' government job you think is useless)? That's all non-productive evil people who should not receive money from the 53%? Absurd."
Easy, rather than the oblivious “absurd” which you assign it: Passport apps: eliminate them, except for computer documentation of your existence. (Illegals don’t use them, why should anyone else?) Fair, flat taxes: that eliminates the IRS. Private accounting firms: that eliminates the government’s bloated numerologists. Eliminate the US Post Office altogether; anyone who cares about their deliveries already uses UPS/FedX; pay bills on-line.
”"It is soft communism, without the dictatorship."
This is so far from communism; your statement made me laugh so hard ;) This is capitalism, the BEST economic model! The fact that the top % makes so much when the bottom makes so little is proof that it is anything but communism and its utopist idea of equality for all. I hope you get what I am saying: I think communism is horrible and cannot possible work, but not having proper social safety nets and rules that avoid excess make Capitalism terrible for those who start with a slow start in life.
Redistribution is Marxist. You are right that the “Pigs being more equal” arises out of such corruption. At the government level, cronyism – not capitalism – reigns.
”...40% of which see no problems with...
It's not like only the 'productive' ones are complaining about the 'non-productive'. Here we are, both in that 'productive' slice (I assume) and we disagree. I don't blame the bottom 40% but you do. I see completely different problems than you see.”
You don’t see very clearly what I am saying. I do not blame the bottom 40%, I blame the Leftist governmental drift over the past century for creating the perpetual bottom 40% which are takers with no longer any incentive to leave their position.
”Your other comments not related to the issue are duly noted. May I point out that it's very ironic how you make yourself sound like such a victim while simultaneously labeling the 'others' as victimizing themselves? You are the one freaking out because you see your country as going down the drain, you are the one complaining, feeling victimized, wanting things to stay 'your' way without all the influx of non-white immigrants, etc... you clearly label yourself as being not-in-control and victim of the changes happening!”
That is a standard load of crap. (1) When someone steals the assets of another, it is legally a crime – unless the government does it, then it is “empathy”. (2) Others victimizing themselves? What in the world are you talking about? The messiah class ("empathetic" givers) has set up the perpetual Victim class ("poor needy helpless things" - takers, oppressed by the Oppressor Class), and assigned the dissenters to the Oppressor Class (evil but necessary producers because they generate assets to be grabbed). (3) Don’t bullshit me about the color of immigrants; my family includes people of color who are beloved. So DON'T pull that “racist” shit with me. What I object to is NOT NOW nor has it EVER BEEN immigrants: Most of us are from immigrant backgrounds: LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. The US has laws regarding who is allowed, legally to immigrate, but people of the Left, apparently you included, don’t care about laws when it comes to importing more Leftist voters to pack the ballot boxes. THERE ARE LAWS. The Left obeys only those laws which are convenient to their own power trip. Calling illegal tresspassers "immigrants" is irrational and offensive, but understandable from Leftists.
Yes there are changes happening: now laws are meaningless. No Leftist is expected to obey any laws he doesn't like. Lawlessness at the top and Left will proceed to generalized lawlessness. You're OK with that, because: empathy. That fails common sense, at least where common sense demands a law-abiding society.
I'm still chapped about the blind charge of racism, even though I fully understand its source. The Leftist trope is that there is no possible legitimate dissent from their moral positioning of their political views, since they are… Moral by definition. They are, after all, the empathetic messiah Class, the embodiment of perfected morality. The dissenting Other, therefore is evil, and that evil must be in the form of some sort of hatred (hence the push for ever more hate crimes on the books, not that the Left recognizes crime in general).
By associating dissent to their self-designed moral/political positions to be evil hatred, all that remains is to categorize the type of hate which is behind the dissent. The current Leftist vogue is to assign racism/homophobism/sexism, which applies to all white males who are not Leftist, messiahist, political moralizers. The attempt to marginalize the Other via contemptible, false charges has become routine.
Some Leftists have even claimed that, for example, a black cannot be racist – only non-Leftist whites can be racist. The existence of the black ghetto plantations which persist at the will of black leaders and white Leftists is empirical evidence to the contrary.
When Hilary becomes the official banner carrier for Leftism, the vogue will narrow to charges of sexism, just as it narrowed to charges of racism under the Obama flag.
These blatant lies are transparent to Leftists, who actually believe in their messiahist moral authority to condemn the Other to the Leftist Moral Hell, which is to be called "something-ist", depending upon the situation. Whether the appellation actually applies has no bearing on the act of condemnation: the messiah must condemn dissent as Immoral and must categorize the condemnation into a politically convenient slot.
However, understanding the source does nothing to ameliorate the fury at being falsely so charged. And an entire, huge segment of the population is commonly so charged. At what point will that fury no longer be contained or containable? I am currently containing mine… barely. I suspect that many are in the same frame of mind.
My bad regarding the 'non-white' part, I actually re-read my comment after sending and thought you would be annoyed by that... as you correctly said, I am extremely busy so I wrote quickly, mistakes happen. For what it's worth, I was looking at stats of voters and Blacks and Hispanics vote much more to th Left so I mixed up your comment on 'leftist' immigrants with 'non-white'...
No idea why that would make you furious though; you keep misrepresenting my position and others' and won't bother correcting yourself, yet, that's still not a reason to be furious imo
"You said a lot, considering how busy you are. I have hit a sensitive zone, I see."
Yes and no... I think it's a really important topic that affects millions of people so, yes, in that sense it's a sensitive zone that I care about. At the same time though, it's just simpler/faster to discuss that, compared to philosophical discussion on materialism or the universe, let's say. Hence, I am taking another short break from my long day to write again ;) Oh and by the way, I feel like the way you write sounds very angry; you did mention that you were getting furious and all... I really find this strange since you say things which are just funny to me. For instance you dish the utopic idea of communist equality, rightly so, but then go on and paint your own utopic version of capitalism; it really makes me laugh honestly! Anyway, I know you hate people like me so my apologies if it bothers you...
"They all have groceries, housing, cars, TV’s, video games, and booze. In most countries they’d be classified as rich."
Right, let's compare ourselves with countries where people live with $2 a day while we are at it... why try to improve the conditions of the poor when they are already so much better off than starving children elsewhere. What about people who rely on food banks and stamps program? Meh... it's their fault, they all spend it on booze and video games anyway. Who cares if there is no way they can ever get access to owning their home...
"I think those jobs should not be occupied by heads of households; they should be entry level jobs for teens."
Let me know when you find this Utopia land. In the meantime, we have lots of people who are forced to take these jobs.
"Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme..."
You missed my point, or avoided it, I don't know... the point is that even if some people are stupid enough to end up fully dependant on Social Security, it is certainly not a high-enough income for it to be "incentives for NOT supporting or not improving oneself" like you said. No one wishes to be dependent of social security and/or is happy with it. Everyone wants more. I agree with you that a portion of the population is parasitic and does not deserve this 'free' ride, but there is no way to know who that. I much prefer to offer a good safety net to all.
"There should be no minimum wage, period. If a job produces value, it would be paid at that value. The minimum wage inflates the value of a job beyond its value, thereby inflating the cost/price to the consumer as inflation due to artificial (phony) valuing."
Again... let me know when you find this Utopia land; this is not the real world. In reality, the gap between the rich and the poor has greatly increased in recent decades. Hence, your description of how inflation of salary works is completely bogus. Doubling the minimum wage would not double the salary of everyone else. Absurd. Yes, I said it again ;-)
Look, the bonus+salary increase I am going to get this year is higher than what someone on minimum wage makes in a year... That's how the economy works right now. Now you're telling me that the 50+ lady who served me my $5 sandwich this morning does not deserve her minimum wage salary? Fuck her right? it's not my problem... Call me elitist, snobbish or stupid for having empathy for the poor but you have absolutely no argument nor sources to defend the parallel you made with a Ponzi Scheme.
"”This 47% actually includes a majority of working people.”
Feel free to support that statement with facts."
Lol, what the heck, you said yourself that this 47% already includes 7% of government employees and everyone who makes minimum wage. Plus, the unemployment rate is only at around 7% so even if we add to that retired people, invalid or others who are not included, how on Earth can we get the 24% you need to prove me wrong. Your turn... feel free to support that statement with facts if you think I missed something. I would love to be proven wrong on this one.
" Easy, rather than the oblivious “absurd” which you assign it: Passport apps: eliminate them, except for computer documentation of your existence. (Illegals don’t use them, why should anyone else?) Fair, flat taxes: that eliminates the IRS. Private accounting firms: that eliminates the government’s bloated numerologists. Eliminate the US Post Office altogether; anyone who cares about their deliveries already uses UPS/FedX; pay bills on-line. "
First, what was absurd, and still is, was this qtoye: 'non-productive government which stays fairly constant around 7%, and you have 47% who are on the take from the other 53%'. As if ALL of that 47% is non-productive.
Second, regarding your magic solutions for government expenses... even fully automated passport apps would require funding and people processing them, utopia! Fair flat taxes; I am all for that actually, but that would not change much for the IRS, utopia again, they would still need to monitor a ton of things and business taxes cannot possibly be handled that easily... Private accounting firms would still be employed by the government and fall under your definition of 'non-productive'. Yes, let's eliminate the US Post Office.
" Redistribution is Marxist. You are right that the “Pigs being more equal” arises out of such corruption. At the government level, cronyism – not capitalism – reigns."
You can call it Marxist if you want; that does not make it wrong for society not do you have any supporting argument that this impairs the productivity and economic health of the US. Capitalism does reign regardless of changes in government; again, you live in the USA Stan, you are very far from being in a socialist country, don't worry, you are fine...
" You don’t see very clearly what I am saying. I do not blame the bottom 40%, I blame the Leftist governmental drift over the past century for creating the perpetual bottom 40% which are takers with no longer any incentive to leave their position. "
Correct, I misunderstood that part. I thought you were blaming the bottom 40% for whining that they are part of the bottom 40% and wanting more.
However, I don't see any valid argument supporting the idea that a Leftist government drift created any of this. High inequality between the rich and the poor with bad social safety nets creates desperate people. What do desparate people do? Commit crimes... I recently read this depressing article about theft in the Bay Area. You know what's common for thieves to do after stealing a wallet? They go to Safeway and Babies'r'us... I wonder why though since they are supposed to have a comfortable lifestyle from their low or non-existent income, right Stan? Please explain that one to me.
"When someone steals the assets of another, it is legally a crime – unless the government does it, then it is “empathy”."
Labeling it as a crime because YOU don't like it does not make it more of a crime. Taxes are a necessary evil to finance public services that we all use, or may need to use, 1 day or another. Yes, I do have 'empathy' for people who make minimum wage or single moms who are looking for a job. Too bad if there are stupid people who abuse that safety net; I prefer them at home drinking beer than on the street trying to rob my wallet. And I certainly want to avoid the single mom from stealing my wallet because her baby needs to eat.
"people of the Left, apparently you included, don’t care about laws when it comes to importing more Leftist voters "
As I said, I made a mistake in my comment that implied you were being racist. However, where does that 'don't care about laws' come from? What makes you think I am in favor of illegal immigration!? I don't even have the right to vote here and don't intend to ever get it...
" now laws are meaningless. No Leftist is expected to obey any laws he doesn't like. Lawlessness at the top and Left will proceed to generalized lawlessness. You're OK with that, because: empathy. That fails common sense, at least where common sense demands a law-abiding society. "
After describing your utopia-land now you fall in despair in conspiracy theories... since when is the 'Left' more inclined to break rules than the 'Right'. That makes no sense. Empathy does not warrant breaking any rules; what the heck... that's what fails common sense. It's precisely because I wish we were living in a more law-abiding society that I want more equality between the rich and the poor, and yes, unfortunately for us 'rich' people that imply paying more taxes among other things. If voluntary donations or 'trickling down from the top' were enough, we would not be in this mess right now...
Hugo,
You seem to claim not thinking before you write. I think that you wrote what you meant. And you go right ahead with your personal moral superiority:
” Anyway, I know you hate people like me so my apologies if it bothers you...”
And that non-apology is a perfect demonstration of your assignment of hate to your moral inferior. I do not accept an apology which does not address the actual offense, rather it accuses me instead of admitting to anything. I should say screw you, in response, so I will: screw you. Further, you are done here. You needn’t even read the remainder, because you will not be replying to it.
” Who cares if there is no way they can ever get access to owning their home...”
That is another full load. The 2008 crisis was brought about in large part by doing exactly that: government lowering the lending standards to allow the “American Dream” to be forced into an “American Reality for All” which is in fact the ongoing American Nightmare Burst Bubble. Those with low credit scores and/or no assets/and/or no down payment were essentially given homes which they could not afford, and they defaulted en masse. So your empathy was tested; there is no way for non-producers to own homes, even when “given access” as you sarcastically demand. The only winners were the government cronies and the crony return to the government.
Re: minimum wage:
” Let me know when you find this Utopia land. In the meantime, we have lots of people who are forced to take these jobs.”
Yes they are forced to, under the current Blue Model bubble burst. You should be proud. The government-caused bubbles always burst, don’t they? At least for those who are not cronies.
” I much prefer to offer a good safety net to all.”
You wish to transfer other people’s money to your preferred constituency…
” Again... let me know when you find this Utopia land; this is not the real world. In reality, the gap between the rich and the poor has greatly increased in recent decades. Hence, your description of how inflation of salary works is completely bogus. Doubling the minimum wage would not double the salary of everyone else. Absurd. Yes, I said it again ;-)”
I did not say “double” did I? Of course not. You made that up as a straw man. The inflation is sufficient to return the minimum wage to its previous relative position on the wage scale: the bottom. Trying to force wages to equality by merely increasing the bottom wage is absolutely futile: all wages would need to be equalized (and I realize that is a long term objective of the “empaths”).
And the consistent Leftist whine about the wealth gap has no meaning for the minimum wage issue. The gap is between entry level positions and the middle class, a gap which is natural and will always exist regardless of the increases bestowed on the entry level workers.
” Now you're telling me that the 50+ lady who served me my $5 sandwich this morning does not deserve her minimum wage salary? Fuck her right? it's not my problem... Call me elitist, snobbish or stupid for having empathy for the poor but you have absolutely no argument nor sources to defend the parallel you made with a Ponzi Scheme.”
Good grief. The Ponzi Scheme analogy is commonly used by economists; it’s not my invention. Your empathy for the poor is readily dealt with by giving them Other People’s Money. Your empathy is not empathy, it is faux moral superiority in pursuit of your own messiah complex to save the poor – not by your own sacrifice, but by sacrificing the assets of others. You want to save the poor lunch lady? Then why are you not giving her half of your wages?? Because that’s not the way that the Leftist “empaths” work, is it? Of course not. Leftist “empaths” are “morally” obliged to take MY assets and redistribute them as THEY see fit.
” Plus, the unemployment rate is only at around 7% so even if we add to that retired people, invalid or others who are not included, how on Earth can we get the 24% you need to prove me wrong.”
First that makes no sense; second it has no bearing on the challenge made to you. It is just another obfuscation since you have no facts to support your claim.
” First, what was absurd, and still is, was this qtoye: 'non-productive government which stays fairly constant around 7%, and you have 47% who are on the take from the other 53%'. As if ALL of that 47% is non-productive.”
Again you make claims about me saying something which I did not say. I said “on the take”.
” You can call it Marxist if you want; that does not make it wrong for society not do you have any supporting argument that this impairs the productivity and economic health of the US. Capitalism does reign regardless of changes in government; again, you live in the USA Stan, you are very far from being in a socialist country, don't worry, you are fine...”
Capitalism is far from in charge in the USA. The stock market is driven by the cash influx from the FED, not by realistic corporate valuations. When/if the FED stops driving cash into the system, a crash is certain. Further, the pushout of debt onto the future generations will absolutely require either a default or massive hyperinflation and resulting social chaos in either case. This is all on the government. Yes, the Leftist mantra of Don’t Worry, Be Happy is the common solution to these intractable problems.
” High inequality between the rich and the poor with bad social safety nets creates desperate people. “
Bull. What creates desperate people is having their assets taken by the government for transfer to other constituencies. The poor aren’t desperate: they have food stamps with which they can buy lottery tickets, pop and smokes. Their kids eat two squares a day at school.
Here’s how empathy really works: in the Ozarks there are many, many poor people. There are also many, many jobs going empty because of the drug testing which is required for basic factory floor employment. These poverty addicts generate a lot of children, and those children get help from local Christian associations and business associations in the form of clothing, food and school supplies. In addition, a huge warehouse is maintained by a Christian organization and kept full of emergency aid for catastrophic disasters, including foreign disasters such as the recent typhoon in the Philippines. semi-tractor-trailers are on hand and ready to deliver water, food, shelter, first aid, etc to planes to anywhere in the world and their aid is commonly there long before any governmental aid.
This does NOT involve taking anyone’s assets involuntarily for transfer by empaths to someone else.
” You know what's common for thieves to do after stealing a wallet? They go to Safeway and Babies'r'us... I wonder why though since they are supposed to have a comfortable lifestyle from their low or non-existent income, right Stan? Please explain that one to me.”
Easy. The rest of their money is spent on drugs. Interestingly, in CO they will have to pay taxes on their grass…
Actually there are a large number of legitimate would-be producers who cannot find jobs under the current Blue Model. I’m not opposed to a temporary WPA type of stop-gap solution, one which would provide productive infra-structure improvement employment for actual workers, until the economy can be freed from the government.
” Labeling it as a crime because YOU don't like it does not make it more of a crime. Taxes are a necessary evil to finance public services that we all use, or may need to use, 1 day or another.”
And of course I have not spoken against legitimate, common use services (except the post office, the IRS, etc). The law must be maintained, the defense mechanisms must be maintained. But that is not redistributive, social engineering for political purposes, clothed in moral superiority. Those are common services for every citizen.
” What makes you think I am in favor of illegal immigration!? I don't even have the right to vote here and don't intend to ever get it...”
Your charge was blatant. But perhaps you are unaware that “immigrant” now refers to those previously known as “illegal aliens”. Leftist political correctness.
” And I certainly want to avoid the single mom from stealing my wallet because her baby needs to eat.”
That sarcasm unwittingly demonstrates the issue with your desire to use my assets for your personal empathetic enterprises: were you actually empathetic, you would share what is in your wallet with that person. But you are defending sharing what is in my wallet, not yours. There is a huge difference.
” After describing your utopia-land now you fall in despair in conspiracy theories... since when is the 'Left' more inclined to break rules than the 'Right'.”
You do not follow American politics, then, do you? The current Leftist administration has specifically refused to enforce laws which it doesn’t like. This law breaking by Obama and by his minion, Holder, is just as morally self-vindicated as is your personal desire to confiscate my assets for your personal empathetic adventures. (these law breakers are currently the Leftist President and the head of the Dept of Justice) Other law breakers are inside the IRS, the ATF, the EPA, the FBI, as well as the Democrats in the Senate who excuse themselves and staff from ObamaCare.
This is far and away beyond the crimes of Richard Nixon; it is an all new category of official scoff-law.
” Empathy does not warrant breaking any rules; what the heck... that's what fails common sense. “
Obama and the entire Democrat machine lied in order to sell ObamaCare: Blue Model Empathy in action.
”It's precisely because I wish we were living in a more law-abiding society that I want more equality between the rich and the poor, and yes, unfortunately for us 'rich' people that imply paying more taxes among other things.”
You could pay 100% in taxes and not achieve lawfulness. Why do you hate the rich? Especially when you say you are one? You could give it to the poor, you know. In fact, you could take all the wealth and give it to the poor, and when they were done with it they would still be poor and still want to be taken care of. It’s been done in the US, done to death. When given spanking new apartments to relieve them from their ghettos, they immediately turned their new digs into ghettos. Those extremely expensive “projects” have since been torn down, they were so destroyed by their unappreciative residents that they had to be razed. The political machine has made ghettoization a feature by sustaining it with cash infusions.
Read some of the sociopolitical analyses of US welfare by Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell. And the Fatal Conceit by Hayek.
Thanks for your time Stan! I still like you! I really hope you (already?) find peace and happiness away from this blog where you whine, become furious and fight with random commentators. Hopefully this banning habit that you have makes you feel better about yourself, with some illusionary sense of control I suppose. As a child, the teachings of some important figure struck me as very important and I still adhere by it: Love each others like I loved you and forgive others. Thank you for helping me stop wasting time writing useless comments here. I find it really tough to stop by myself even when I am crazy busy... Cheers!
Hugo,
"Thank you for helping me stop wasting time writing useless comments here."
Yes, Hugo. You push all the buttons and then cannot comprehend the necessity of the result. Or you comprehend, but try to give the false impression that you don't, while still pushing the buttons.
You earned your ban, twice.
Hugo,
I should have kept your last message admitting to being just a button pusher - and saying that you have previously so admitted - but I deleted it before I thought about it.
You should read "Ninth Wave", a novel from the 70's (I think) about such a sociopathic individual. It is also called chronic jerkism, and it never ends well.
I think that you actually are cemented into your worldview, and that you argue whatever crap comes into your mind at a given moment, thinking that it is necessary to just cause frustration and ultimately anger in the other side in order to score a "win". When necessary, use defamation.
That of course is not pursuit of rationality as an end, it is the opposite.
Because that is purely "you", you will not post here in the future, no matter how you choose to appear. I gave you far too much latitude in the recent past, and I should have re-instituted the prior ban.
This blog is intended to explore the premises, conclusions and vicissitudes of Atheism and its inexorable mutation to irrational worldviews, including, but not restricted to, Leftist messiahism.
Anyone wishing to discuss that in a rational fashion is welcome.
Defamation is not.
@Stan: Hugo acts like an asshole every time he comes here. It's like he's performing for an audience, or at the very least feeding his ego on you. Or attempting to.
He's a troll, Stan, pure and simple. I dunno why you don't block his IP and have done with him. He/she has behaved like a selfish jerkoff from the very start.
No sense in feeding the troll. It can't be good for your blood pressure (I had assholes in the Navy accuse me of being racist, too. Didn't stick because everyone else knew I had married a girl from the Philippines...)
OTOH, I am going to copy and keep this exchange. You made some interesting points and they were more succinct than usual.
Regards,
Steve
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