Thursday, September 15, 2011

Austin Cline on C S Lewis

Cline is hardly dispassionate; he claims that “C.S. Lewis wanted to explain nature on the basis of his supernatural god”. It is immediately obvious what prejudice will be applied to the subject. What Lewis actually did was to arrive at what he felt was an undeniable, incorrigible truth, that the existence of rationality implies something other than mere agglomerations of atoms.

”Lewis appears not to have understood that some events and systems are, even in principle, not explainable despite being entirely natural. No one disputes that the weather is completely natural, but while weather events can be predicted to varying degrees of accuracy, it’s not possible even in principle to explain every facet of them because they are too complex, chaotic, and probabilistic.”

Cline makes three associations without any attributions: weather events are “complex, chaotic, and probabilistic”. It is hardly arguable that weather events are complex. But Cline must support his claim that they are chaotic (first defining his interpretation of the word). And it is complexity vs current comprehension that leads to probabilism, not the inherent characteristics of weather: we use probabilities because not all the factors are known or can be taken into account. This doesn’t make them “unexplainable”, it just means that we can’t do it yet. Cline makes a leap to a-scientism when he declares the weather to be – presumably permanently, by nature – probabilistic. There is no reason to presume that weather patterns do NOT have causes, even if the causes are multitudinous in their complexity.

So Cline fails in this attempt to fault Lewis on his understanding of science. Cline himself fails.

And Cline’s reference to quantum events is a point made in a void:
”This isn’t necessarily true. Lewis was aware of advances in physics which revealed that events on the quantum level were probabilistic rather than deterministic, but he regarded this as a reason to think that there exists something more than “Nature” rather than as a reason to think that maybe nature isn’t quite what he (like others) assumed it to be. He rejected the findings of science because they conflicted with his assumptions.”

Quantum mechanics is far from a mature source of knowledge. Making philosophical truth statements on quantum mechanics is not convincing. Even so, the mind-matter connection in quantum mechanics (Is Cline aware of it?) seems to back up Lewis. There is more to nature than naturalists allow.

”Thus, what we encounter is a tactic which Lewis uses continually: the construction of a false dilemma fallacy in which he presents the “wrong” option in an unfavorable and incorrectly defined way against the “right” option which, he hopes, will seem more reasonable against his straw man. The idea of a third option, like rejecting both extreme determinism and supernaturalism, is never entertained.”

Cline is right, there are two additional options to the dilemma: (a) accepting both determinism and metaphysical existence, and (b) rejecting both determinism and metaphysical existence. But Cline makes the covert presumption that (b) is the correct answer, without any defense for it. What does it mean to reject, as Cline calls it, extreme determinism? Are we allowed to put any effect into a causeless category, determined purely by chance? Where does that leave empirical science?

No answer here, Cline moves quickly away and on to the idea that atoms don’t need to be rational in order for large agglomerates of atoms to be rational. He claims that requiring a characteristic of the agglomerate is not necessary for the individual component under the Fallacy of Composition. But the Fallacy of Composition says the opposite:

From the Fallacy Files:

”Some properties are such that, if every part of a whole has the property, then the whole will too—for example, visibility. However, not all properties are like this—for instance, invisibility. All visible objects are made up of atoms, which are too small to see. Let's call a property which distributes from all of the parts to the whole an "expansive" property, using Nelson Goodman's term. If P is an expansive property, then the argument form above is validating, by definition of what such a property is. However, if P is not expansive, then the argument form is non-validating, and any argument of that form commits the fallacy of Composition.”

Is property P expansive, if property P is “rationality”? No, rationality is not a property of atoms at all. Period. So property P cannot be either expansive or non-expansive, since it does not exist in the object of discussion.

If it does not exist in the object of discussion (an atom), then it will not exist in large aggregates of the objects, either. So intellect and reason cannot be presumed to arise from atoms, because that property does not exist in atoms.

The invisibility of atoms is not a property of atoms, it is a property of the human eye and its resolution, or lack thereof, at the size of individual atoms. This is a misdirection, and is “just one more example of Cline [not Lewis] constructing fallacious arguments". Misuse and misunderstanding the basics of logical fallacies is a trait that one must watch carefully when dealing with Atheist “analysis” of arguments which they refuse to comprehend.

Cline moves on to the Lewis – Anscombe debate. The details of the debate are presumably available in the accumulated papers of philosopher Anscombe – more about that coming up. There are two distinctly opposing views as to what happened at the meeting (now called a “debate”), and what Lewis’s reaction was. Two of his friends claim that Lewis was “devastated” by his defeat. Others claim, ignoring evidence to the contrary, that Lewis stopped his apologetics writings and focused entirely on children’s allegorical fantasies. But Anscombe herself has a different story of what happened that day:
"The meeting of the Socratic Club at which I read my paper has been described by several of his friends as a horrible and shocking experience which upset him very much…. My own recollection is that it was an occasion of sober discussion of certain quite definite criticisms, which Lewis’s rethinking and rewriting showed he thought was accurate. I am inclined to construe the odd accounts of the matter by some of his friends – who seem not to have been interested in the actual arguments of the subject-matter – as an interesting example of the phenomenon called projection.”
(Note 1)
In his book, “Surprised by Joy”, Lewis chronicles his journey away from his schoolboy philosophy. His philosophy was strictly and rigidly Naturalist. He came to reject that philosophy as he progressed in his thinking through those early years, mostly at Oxford. By the time he wrote “Miracles” he had written explaining his previous thinking and why it was wrong. Cline seems to have missed this whole part of Lewis’ life story, which gives much of the strength to Lewis’ mature writings. In fact, it is doubtful that Cline has read a single page of Lewis; it is more likely that he got his information third-hand, and uncritically used it in his “critique”.

Cline’s essay on Lewis is segmented into falseness on the one hand and prejudice on the other hand:

”Lewis relied, for example, on a bizarre epistemology, according to which knowledge can only be attained indirectly by inferring from sensory perception to the objects supposedly lying behind them. Because of this, he felt that reliable knowledge depends upon logical reasoning — that we cannot come to have true, justified beliefs about the world without it.

This is a peculiar and extreme form of rationalism, but it’s not an epistemology which is compatible with modern science and thinking. It doesn’t enjoy wide currency today, even among Christians who ostensibly accept Lewis’ apologetics. If they do not accept the epistemological assumptions he uses, though, they cannot also accept his theological conclusions which they find so appealing.”

This is not even a good description of Lewis’ beliefs as a “naïve young man” who was a Materialist. It seems to be a misunderstanding on the part of Cline or at least a poor description of what he thinks Lewis thought.

Cline is not a reliable source for much of anything, certainly not theological theories. There are other, better sources.

For a very interesting paper on the anthropological argument which includes Lewis, see this:

http://www.cslewis.org/ffblog/archives/2005/09/does_mathematic.html

And by physicist Kyler Kuehn, a very interesting review of a book by Victor Reppert, ”C.S.Lewis’s Dangerous Idea”. Reppert apparently updated Lewis’s arguments and refutes attacks on them, fairly successfully according to Kuehn. The problem encountered is the standard problem with all philosophy, including apologetics: when you get to the bottom axioms you find something which cannot be proved, something which must be accepted and used as a presupposition.

http://www.ps.uci.edu/~kuehn/personal/reppert.htm

For example, Skeptics can always ask, “can you prove…” As in, “Can you prove that you exist?” “Can you prove that rationality exists?” “Can you prove that validity exists?” “Can you prove that logic means anything given that you cannot prove that validity exists, or that rationality exists, or that you exist, or that existence exists?"  It’s the obvious which is unprovable.

Of course none of these things can be proven using rationality. And that’s the final downfall of ALL philosophy and apologetics: the Skeptics can always find the final axiom which must be presupposed, and then claim that that voids the argument, because your premises, at their base, cannot, to the Skeptic's satisfaction, be proven. Or true. Or meaningful – or whatever. Taken to the radical skeptical limit, nothing can be proven rationally, ever.

So according to the Skeptics, you can’t make an argument from rationality if you can’t prove that rationality exists, and that necessarily done without unprovable presuppositions.  Perhaps this is something like what Lewis confronted in his discussion with Anscombe, the ultimate fate of all philosophy: failure at the level of axioms.

Keuhn concludes that Reppert’s assessment of the updated Lewis arguments are valid and work, IF one is allowed to presuppose that “rationality exists”. But that is too much for Skeptics, apparently, despite the obvious consequence that if there is no rationality then all their blitherings are meaningless, meaning that their charges of falseness are meaningless, too. So if their charges are to have meaning, then rationality must exist. (note 2)

I have Lewis’s “Miracles” book on its way. I might have to get Reppert’s book, too. Book acquisition never ceases.

But back to Cline, there is no need to believe what he says about Lewis or anything else. Look for reputable sources. Go deep. Then go deeper.

Note 1:
http://gavinortlund.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/the-lewis-anscombe-debate/

Note 2:
One skeptic claimed that because the mind is an epiphenomenon of the brain, it is merely informed of the brain's activity after the fact, so the mind cannot have beliefs. Reppert’s response: “You expect me to believe that?”  I suggest this response: “So you believe that there are no beliefs?”

14 comments:

Larry said...

Hi Stan. I've been reading your blog for several months now, though this is the first time I've been compelled to post a comment.

I got into a short debate with Austin about five years ago on about.com (the debate is still there) over the so-called immorality of torture sans God. He is an arrogant, closed-minded piece of work, to put it lightly.

At any rate, I just wanted to drop a line to say I highly appreciate the detailed refutations of atheism you've got here on this blog, along with the energy and enthusiasm I know you must have to keep it going. I enjoy reading your comments and posts, when I get the time. Have a great day.

Larry

Stan said...

Larry,
It is comments like yours that keep me energized, thank you!

Stan

Martin said...

Stan,

Thank you for writing on these types of arguments. I too have been interested in Reppert's work, and you can find a short article by him here on the same topic.

I would also recommend getting a good philosophy of mind book (the one by Feser is good), as it deals with some of these same issues, such as intentionality. Indeed, you can even find materialists who admit that materialism fails just as hard as dualism.

All very interesting...

Chris said...

Martin,

I just started the Last Superstition by Ed Feser.I came across a review of the book by an atheist fella named Chris Hallquist. If you're so inclined, I'd love to hear your review of the review. You can find it at his site: uncrediblehallq.net

On his home page, one can find this statement "It's over, the atheists won!" Amusing. Some of his criticisms, however, might have a bit of substance.

I'm curious. You say agnostic, but I hear deist. ??

Martin said...

Chris,

I just read Halllquist's second part of his review, and he doesn't even understand the arguments Feser gives. It's truly amazing how badly he messes it up.

For example, he characterizes the First Way as saying that if A causes change in B and B causes change in C, then C is really only changing because A is changing, with B being purely instrumental. So far so good. But then he says that this is "fallacious" (is anyone more guilty of the fallacy fallacy than atheists? Apparently if you are an atheist you don't need to think; just shriek "fallacy!" over and over again until you win) because the earth is the cause of the moon orbiting it, and the sun is the cause of the earth orbiting it, but clearly the sun is not the cause of the moon orbiting the earth.

Ugh. Is this a reading comprehension problem or something? The point in the first way is that change consists of a chain of connected causes all operating simultaneously. So the proper examination of the example in question runs as follows: the moon is orbiting the earth because of the earth's gravity, the gravity is only working because of the mass of the earth, the mass of the earth is only operating because of (possibly?) the Higgs boson, and so on. I.e., what members of the chain cannot be removed without the end effect stopping?

This is all clearly explained in Feser's book, but so many atheists theses days seem to be operating from an emotional standpoint instead of a rational one that they misread their opponents.

As for me, I withhold judgment for now. If Thomism is true, it would be for theism, not deism, since the unmoved mover continually sustains everything?

Andrew G. said...

If it does not exist in the object of discussion (an atom), then it will not exist in large aggregates of the objects, either. So intellect and reason cannot be presumed to arise from atoms, because that property does not exist in atoms.

But this, right there, is the fallacy of composition (or looked at another way, the fallacy of division) committed in the absolutely classic manner.

You are arguing that atoms have the property "not capable of reasoning" (true), and that therefore compositions of atoms must also have that property (false).

For example, atoms of carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen all have the property "not mauve coloured", whereas molecules of mauveine dye (composed only of carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen) have the property "mauve coloured".

The significance there is that the colour arises not from the individual atoms but from the interactions between them (on the atomic scale colour is not an expansive property). Likewise, intellect and reason are processes, and therefore by definition are the result of interactions between parts (and therefore "not reasoning" cannot be an expansive property).

There is no shortage of other examples. A single cell of the linear cellular automaton known as "rule 110" cannot possess the property "capable of universal computation"; neither can any short sequence of such cells; but an arbitrarily long sequence does possess it. The cells in the game of Life also behave in this way.

Martin said...

Andrew G,

The problem with your argument here is that if reason arises from an arrangement of physical matter, then it is a one-way causal connection. The arrangement of ink particles causes the painting to emerge, but the painting cannot affect the ink particles. It is completely subordinate to them and their arrangement.

So if your mind (and reason) emerges from arrangements of atoms, then your reason cannot affect those atoms. But, I bet you thought about this comment, reasoned it out, and then caused your physical fingers to type your response.

Andrew G. said...

Not a problem at all. Imagine a machine carrying out some mechanical process. The process is a description of how the parts of the machine interact.

At one level of description, the parts move according to the rules of the process; but at another level, they move only according to their interaction with other parts. The fact that you can describe it either way does not create any new form of causality that allows the abstract "process" to affect the concrete machinery.

By thinking about arrangements rather than processes you are missing the key points. Minds, reasoning ability, consciousness and so on cannot be static.

Martin said...

But the abstract process has to be able to affect the machinery. You just reasoned out, abstractly, an answer to my comment. This caused your fingers to move. Clearly there is reasoning going on here, and clearly this reasoning can affect the fingers. If reason emerges from particles, then it cannot affect those particles.

Andrew G. said...

No; my fingers move because the physical activity of neurons in my brain causes them to do so.

The fact that that physical activity also represents a process of reasoning does not introduce new causality, only a new level of description.

Martin said...

Yes, but then you would have to say that the reasoning is happening unconsciously. It is just neurons and electrons that are doing the reasoning.

Andrew G. said...

It's just neurons and electrons that are doing the consciousness, too. So it's not in any sense "unconscious".

Martin said...

And if neurons and electrons give rise to both reasoning and consciousness, then it is the neurons and electrons doing the reasoning and not the conscious person. That is precisely the concern of C.S. Lewis's argument.

Consider a calculator. It performs addition 2 + 2 = 4 entirely unconsciously. But not really. It only correctly performs this function if we assign the correct meaning to the symbols from the outside. If we instead took "2" to mean "3", then the calculator is not adding correctly at all.

Likewise, if our brains are just unconsciously manipulating symbols, then some external mind has to give meaning to those symbols for it to even work correctly. Obviously, no one is using our minds to do calculations; they just do it.

But this should not be possible on materialism.

Andrew G. said...

I should probably point out that this is all something of a digression from the original fallacy; my argument concerning that stands even if you deny physicalism.

To continue the digression:

"it is the neurons and electrons doing the reasoning and not the conscious person" - this is a meaningless statement because the conscious person is the neurons and electrons.

The process and the machine are not separable in this sense. You cannot say "it is the machine doing X and not the process", nor "it is the process doing X and not the machine" - they are both doing it, the difference is only in description.

"Likewise, if our brains are just unconsciously manipulating symbols" - but they're not. (Though obviously there is a lot of unconscious processing going on.) Since what you call "consciousness" is itself a process going on in the brain, then the symbol manipulations that are inputs or results of that process are not "unconscious".

To the extent that we assign meanings to symbols which aren't directly imposed by sense impressions, those meanings, since they exist primarily for communication, are primarily social constructs. (We can also assign our own meanings, when communicating with ourselves, as in memory.)

Logic, reasoning, mathematics and symbolic processing in general are skills that we have to learn (though there are some built-in concepts; for example unconscious neural processes exist which provide a rough count of items in the visual field and do comparisons of "more" or "fewer").