Monday, April 19, 2010

PZ Watch 4.19.10

PZ Meyers Explains Science and Religion in a Q&A:
1. Can science provide a morality to change the world?

NO.
Science merely describes what is, not what should be, and it also takes a rather universal view: science as science takes no sides on matters relevant to a particular species, and would not say that an ape is more important than a mouse is more important than a rock. Don't ask science to tell you what to do when making some fine-grained moral decision, because that is not what science is good at.
What science is, is a policeman of the truth. What it's very good at is telling you when a moral decision is being made badly, in opposition to the facts.
….
However, I would suggest that science would also concede that we as a species ought to support a particular moral philosophy, not because it is objectively superior, but because it is subjectively the proper emphasis of humanity...and that philosophy is humanism. In the same way, of course, we'd also suggest that cephalopods would ideally follow the precepts of cephalopodism.”
Cephalopodism as a natural behavior is likely to be individual self-focused, not the forced elitiist focus on the denial of self for the “benefit of the species as a whole” as is called for by humanism. Humanism goes against the individual’s self-interest, and is enforced by the enlightened elite. This is not speculation, it is based on the facts of the grand humanist experiments of the last century. It can happen no other way because it is to no one’s specific benefit, except for the elite class. This is not new. The hundreds of millions dead due to prior humanist / elitist experiments attest to it.
”So don't look to science for a moral philosophy: look to humanism. Humanism says that we should strive to maximize the long-term welfare and happiness of humans; that we should look to ourselves, not to imaginary beings in the sky or to the imperatives written down in old books, to aspire to something better, something more coherent and successful at promoting our existence on the planet.

Science wouldn't disagree. But it would be a kind of passive agreement that says, sure, nothing in that idea is in violation of reality, go for it. “
PZ’s wish is for something better, more coherent and successful. Freedom, education in the principles of logic and rational thought, personal responsibility for one’s actions and consequences, pursuit of one’s own interests, these social constructs don’t work well for the elites.

Especially the coherent part. PZ and his cohorts do not like dissent, unless it is them doing it: it is not coherent. Read the next part.
”2. Are science, religion, and communism complementary, conflictual or mutually exclusive of one another?

Science and religion are definitely in conflict. Again, science is only acting as a policeman, though: it's firing up the sirens and flashing lights to pull over the priests and tell them that claiming authority on the basis of an imaginary man in the sky is fallacious and discredits your entire paradigm. Rethink the basis of your beliefs, and maybe we can get along. “
Policeman? Pulling over the religious? I must reject my dissent from his views in order to “get along”? This is a fearful statement coming from a Humanist elitist. The history of the world, 1900 to 2000, should place this comment in perspective. The idea of science as the policeman for Humanism should run a chill up every spine.
”3. How will we motivate people, and with what moral paradigm to change the world?

As I've said repeatedly, science doesn't provide a morality. What it does provide, and what I optimistically and subjectively think will motivate people, is that it provides rigor and a path to the truth of the world. I know, I could be cynical and suggest that what people really want is delusions, distractions, and reassurances to help them hide away from reality -- but what I've noticed is that people who accept reality seem to be better able to deal with it, and are often happier and more content. And further, they are better prepared to change the actual world, rather than burying themselves deeper in their fantasies.”
The persistent lie from the Atheist playbook is that by not accepting a limit to reality according to their (unprovable) “truth of the world”, one is living in a fantasy due to needing the narcotic of delusions for personal happiness. Yet, a great many scientists, silent on their beliefs by professional necessity, are not in agreement with Atheism, or Philosophical Materialism. What PZ notices is only that which he wishes to notice; he now considers himself a sociologist, as well as a biology teacher. Atheists are “happier and more content”? Where is the data?

But this is important: being prepared to “change the world” is not an asset if the agent of change is a humanist. Beware humanists bearing “change”.

4 comments:

sonic said...

PZ claims-

"Again, science is only acting as a policeman, though: it's firing up the sirens and flashing lights to pull over the priests and tell them that claiming authority on the basis of an imaginary man in the sky is fallacious and discredits your entire paradigm."

But there is no science that does this. There is no science that takes any action whatsoever. There aren't any priests (that I'm aware of) claiming authority on the basis of an imaginary man.
So PZ imagines a 'science' that doesn't exist in order to bring about a change in people that don't exist.

I wonder if he would rethink the basis of his beliefs given the above factual information.

sonic said...

My earlier comment is OK, but this is more what I was trying to find...

PZ seems to think that it is important that there is no disagreement between science and humanism.
But one wonders what statements one could make that are not in disagreement with science.
"Love is the most important thing for people," would not be in violation of any known scientific law.
"There is nothing wrong with killing millions of humans for no reason whatsoever," would certainly fit the bill.
"Burning every book about humanism and killing by slow torturous means anyone mentioning it would be a moral activity," would certainly not be in disagreement with any law of science.
"God created the universe," would not be in disagreement with science.
Need I go on?

Wandering Internet Commentator said...

Hi Stan (if you wouldn't mind a new commenter calling you that), while I don't agree with everything you've said here or your political views necessarily, I've always found your blog thought-provoking and quite liked this entry in particular.

but because it is subjectively the proper emphasis of humanity...and that philosophy is humanism.

Amusingly enough, even if we accept Dr. Myer's point that science concedes we ought to support the particular moral philosophy called 'humanism' (a dubious enough proposition by itself), as far as I can tell 'humanism' is such a vague, ill-defined philosophy that it conceivably supports pretty much anything. If someone could dredge around through Pharyngula and find me the entry which describes Myers' specific definition of humanism I'd be obliged, but I just popped over to the Humanist Manifesto III (http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III) and checked out a few of its positions.

"Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals?" Well, what are "humane ideals?" I've heard white nationalists argue that slavery was a "humane" practice because slaves were better off in the US than in Africa (and not all of these WNs were Christian or even religious, mind you). "Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships?" Harcore Communists would argue that if this was the case, the most "meaningful" relationship people can have with each other is under the umbra of a godlike state. "Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness?" White Nationalists, again, would argue that eugenics, segregation, etc. were better for society as a whole, both whites and blacks, and so on--and again, I've heard these arguments from atheists WNs.

Considering how loudly Dr. Myers has denounced racism for being 'unscientific, stupid, et cetera,' I personally think it is somewhat confusing he would say science "concedes" anything to humanism if the philosophy can so easily be used to support something as "unscientific" as racism.

Stan said...

Folks, thanks for your comments.

Right below here I have written a version of the Humanist Manifesto which I stripped of its obscurant verbiage in order to clarify its intent, which was fairly obvious in the First Manifesto, and increasingly obscured subsequently:

http://atheism-analyzed.blogspot.com/2010/04/humanist-manifesto-for-honest-intellect.html

Humanism in a sentence:

"The masses must deny all self-centric focus, while focusing only on the Good Of All Mankind as defined and enforced by the separate elite class: Atheist Intellectuals (self-appellated and self-appointed), who will run all institutions."