Several events have come together to induce me to revisit the infamous “argument from the perspective of evil”, an Atheist argument against the existence of a deity. The basics of the argument go like this (or variations of this): evil exists; a deity could stop it but doesn't; therefore the deity is either evil or doesn't exist; most likely the deity doesn't exist. There are lots of offshoots that discuss omnipotence, omniscience, free will and so forth, but the basics remain pretty much the same.
For Christmas I received a book documenting a debate between two scholars on the existence of a deity.
As I sometimes do, I read the frontispiece of a book and then go to the back to see if an index contains items that interest me. In this particular book the Atheist participant claims up front that his 8 year old son was brilliant enough to develop his own argument from evil; at the back of the book he claims that while Materialism might be a shaky position, the argument from evil is solid and irrefutable.
Simultaneously with receiving the book, the argument from the perspective of evil has arisen on other blogs, with the proponents confident that the argument is absolutely insurmountable and is concrete proof that there is no deity.
The argument from evil seems to be even more persuasive to Atheo-materialists than either the flying spaghetti monster/ orbiting teapot argument or the who-made-God argument. The argument has several aspects to be addressed:
1. Atheists are more moral than God.
2. Atheists are more omniscient than God.
3. Omnibenevolence is a lacking characteristic, yet necessary of a God.
4. Earth as a protected playground, a requirement of a God.
Some questions arise quite naturally from this. First, what are the standards for morality that are being used? Next, what evidence is produced that supports the claims? Are the claims coherent using standard logic? Do the claims in fact prove what they purport to prove?
1.Declaring that God is immoral presents an immediate cognitive dissonance. Since Atheists do not accept any morality as absolute, much less binding, they are certainly stretching credibility by declaring that God is immoral, especially by their standards. Most Atheists admit that there are no absolute moral standards common to all Atheists. So there is no standard by which to judge a deity, other than his own standard.
To claim that Atheists – if they were God - would not allow mass murder is absurd, given the history as recent as the last century which was drenched in Atheist bloodbaths. To claim that Atheists would not allow suffering, rape, torture, etc ad nauseum, is equally absurd. Atheists cannot be more moral than anyone, period. They have no common morality from which to make that claim. And their history belies their claim, in spades. Evidence for Atheist morality is contrary to the assertion made or implied by the argument from evil.
But more to the point, a deity in possession of the roots of morality cannot be faulted for whatever he chooses to do, since his morality is his decision. He cannot be immoral by his standards, since he created the standards for humans, not for himself. For the deity, morality is tautological. The claims made by the argument from evil are not logically coherent.
By the way, this is the exact position taken by Atheists, who feel they are moral. They cannot fail to be moral by their standards, since they invent the standards to suit their own convenience: they are moral by their own definition, not by any absolute standard. This argument for Atheist morality fails even amongst other Atheists whose standards differ, person to person; the morality is relative to the individual, and so is not morality at all. It is just behavior being justified with words conjured in its favor. This position is not coherent.
But back to God. If God commands one thing, then countermands that command for specific situations, is that hypocrisy as Atheists charge? The deity in charge of the roots of morality cannot be a hypocrite. It is a definitional pot hole into which the Atheist’s argument disappears.
As for material proof, are natural disasters, diseases, pain and suffering immoral in and of themselves? These are the material manifestations that are found objectionable by the argument from evil. But these material objects and actions are not evil, they just are. They have no motivations, no evil objectives. Even evil people are not evidence of an evil deity unless they are puppets of that deity; and the puppet theory is transparently false.
The lack of standards, evidence, coherence and material proof contradict the presumed validity of the argument from evil. But there is more.
2. By claiming to know more than a deity about what is Right For Mankind, the Atheist is asserting a superior omniscience to that of the deity in question. Need I say more about such a fallacy? OK, I will say this: Philosophical Materialism is the opposite of omniscience. The act of denying a deity does not add either knowledge or wisdom to an individual. It artificially constricts knowledge to material objects and actions, while denying subjective space experiences.
3. The primary rationalized disconnect in the argument from evil is the concept of omnibenevolence. This position maintains that because I don’t like certain aspects of living in the material world, the deity SHOULD NOT have allowed those aspects to exist. In fact the Atheist, if promoted to the position of the deity, would have eliminated all such discomforts from the world. This includes such things as natural disasters, disease, predators, entropy, aging, death and other unpleasantness. Obviously any deity that would allow such nasty obstacles to complete happiness for each human cannot be any good. Any really good deity would grant every wish and remove all unpleasantness from our experiences: no stubbed toes, no scraped knees, no burnt fingers; only pleasantness would occupy our days. So from this the Atheist concludes that no deity exists, since the world does not conform to the Atheist’s standards and specifications for a deity. No omnibenevolence, no deity.
As any parent knows, omnibenevolence is a sure path to creating a totally selfish, self-centered offspring, one that demands ever more since happiness is so elusive when sought in material things. The inability of the recipient to become happy even when awash in material goods results in resentment of the provider, and ultimately in separation and hatred by the recipient who feels denied of real happiness and blames it on the provider. Omnibenevolence is an evil itself. Demanding omnibenevolence from a “good” deity is irrational.
4. Even in the face of the evil of omnibenevolence, Atheists claim that a moral deity would not allow any consequences for bad decisions. This has been called the “perfectly protected playground”, where the deity cushions all falls and no one ever learns how not to fall in the first place.
The argument from evil ties-in perfectly with humanism, which requires happiness as the ultimate good. Not the happiness of the individual, mind you, but the generalized happiness of the bulk of mankind. In fact, individual happiness is to be sacrificed for that of overall mankind. It is this sacrifice, it is claimed paradoxically, that provides happiness to the individual. Humanism has resulted in the slaughter of hundreds of millions of humans, all for the good of mankind. Humanism is one of the worst evils visited upon this planet; it is directly connected to Atheism, and is justified by the argument from evil.
The argument from evil, is itself, evil. It is illogical, and it is false.
9 comments:
Hi Stan,
I agree that the argument from evil is not particularly convincing.
I'm curious about one thing though: you made a passing comment that God created moral standards for humans, but not for himself.
But I've often heard Christians describe God as "good" and "righteous" and such things which have moral overtones.
If God is not subject to the morality by which we would normally define traits like "good" and "righteous", then how do we define what that means, in terms of God?
Surely such descriptions can't be applied?
I think "the argument from evil" is not compelling:
1)It's a non sequitur. It only could apply to a Omnibenevolent God who is not sufficiently omnipotent to enable the evil (or who lack any trascendental motives to enable it).
Only in that case, the "evil" would be a logical contradiction with the attributes assigned to God.
However, deists like Antony Flew, believes that: "For the deist, the existence of evil does not pose a problem because the deist God does not intervene in the affairs of the world. The religious theist, of course, can turn to the free-will defense (in fact I am the one who first coined the phrase free-will defense). Another relatively recent change in my philosophical views is my affirmation of the freedom of the will."
Reference:
http://www.tothesource.org/10_30_2007/10_30_2007.htm
Thus, even if the argument from the evil is correct and sound, it doesn't follow that atheism is true (because it doesn't exclude other conceptions of God, like deism; so the argument from evil doesn't imply atheism and its non sequitur character is exposed).
2)You mention an excellent point: As for material proof, are natural disasters, diseases, pain and suffering immoral in and of themselves? These are the material manifestations that are found objectionable by the argument from evil. But these material objects and actions are not evil, they just are. They have no motivations, no evil objectives. Even evil people are not evidence of an evil deity unless they are puppets of that deity; and the puppet theory is transparently false.
Correct. Atheists confound material facts with judgments of value. The former are governed by physical laws, the latter are assigned by human agents on reality according to a previous set of moral codes. Given that atheists don't have an absolutelty objetive set of values, the disasters mentioned by them are not intrinsically evil and can't be soundly used against the attributes assigned to God.
As argued by Richard Dawkins: "Now, if you then ask me where I get my 'ought' statements from, that's a more difficult questionIf I say something is wrong, like killing people, I don't find that nearly such a defensible statement as 'I am a distant cousin of an orangutan"
If such statements aren't so defensible, how could an atheist use so weak and relative statements when using the argument from the evil?
Dawkins adds: "The second of those statements is true, I can tell you why it's true, I can bore you to death telling you why it's true. It's definitely true. The statement 'killing people is wrong', to me, is not of that character. I would be quite open to persuasion that killing people is right in some circumstances"
Reference:
http://www.damaris.org/content/content.php?type=5&id=102
Killing people is not intrinsically bad or wrong for metaphysical naturalists, because ought statement are not so defensible as factual statements (and because metaphysical naturalists don't have a set of objetives values). The same applies to the "ought statements" regarding God enabling disasters, pain, diseases, etc. (and with more reason, because they aren't intentional facts created by intentional agents but morally neutral natural phenomena governed by non-intentional natural laws; in contrast to intentionally killing people under "certain (subjetively chosen) circunstances", that is a morally censurable behaviour except for people with no objetives values or who doesn't respect human life as an absolute value)
Good comment, thanks. I was not aware that Flew had also acknowledged free will. Interesting.
Matt,
I see that I have wandered off into the murky depths of theology here. My normal intent is to remain in the sphere of rationality and to apply it to Atheism. All I know about God is what I read in the Bible, and what I can infer from current empirical science.
Here's what I think can be inferred:
The creating being exists outside of space and time, because these physical artifacts of the creation did not exist before the big bang. This means that we cannot apply our experiences (which are time based) to that being as characteristics of such a being, because it is so very difficult for us to think outside of a time dominated framework.
For example, cause and effect is one of our basic tenets of rationality. But it is based in time: first the cause, then the effect. Never simultaneous or reversed order.
And moral decisions are action based: the decision to do or not to do a certain action. Again time based.
So applying things like this to a being that exists outside time, is a fruitless pursuit. Whether the creator is moral or not is unanswerable within our rational framework.
It could be deduced that if the creator created standards that were compatible with himself, but were applied to humans; and if those standards are "good"; then the creator would also be good.
By the way this also applies to the "who made God" regression argument: the regression part is time based and is meaningless outside of time.
Most Atheist arguments are based on the idea that humans can understand the creating being and the environment that is outside space/time and mass/energy. I have not found anyone who can describe such an existence in terms of our own existence which is restricted to those constraints.
Hey Stan,
Excellent article. I've made similar points in recent dialogue with an agnostic friend (agnosticism is interesting isn't it? It's a position that it's followers have the comfort of having to assert nothing but it doesn't relieve them from evidence).
I made point 2 several times to him and he simply would not acknowledge it. It amazed me that he honestly thought (thinks?) that his judgment is on equal ground with God's.
At any rate, I've linked to this article because it's so well written. Thanks for what you do.
ps - Ever plan on doing an article on agnosticism?
1. "Most Atheists admit that there are no absolute moral standards common to all Atheists. So there is no standard by which to judge a deity, other than his own standard." Preposterous. The Bible itself is the standard by which Atheists/Agnostics judge the Christian God.
2. "But more to the point, a deity in possession of the roots of morality cannot be faulted for whatever he chooses to do, since his morality is his decision. He cannot be immoral by his standards, since he created the standards for humans, not for himself." How convenient for Him. An illogical explanation offered by the author. This makes this "loving God" sound more like Kim Jong Il than a "loving God."
3. "They invent the standards to suit their own convenience." This would be a more accurate description of God, given the author's insistence that God cannot be immoral. Atheists/Agnostics who believe in morality base it on secular-based human rights, which have been proven necessary for the survival of humans.
4. "As for material proof, are natural disasters, diseases, pain and suffering immoral in and of themselves? These are the material manifestations that are found objectionable by the argument from evil. But these material objects and actions are not evil, they just are." I'm starting to feel sorry for this guy. If he really believes this, he is very ignorant. Nobody that I know of has suggested that natural disasters are evil "in and of themselves." It is this supposed God, who claims to be all powerful and all knowing who is evil when He allows these things to happen.
5. The author's "3" could be used almost word for word to defend Atheism. Atheists don't think that there should be no consequences for bad decisions, but the supposed word of God contrasted with "3" makes God a hypocrite.
CharlieSierra_1973:
1. "The Bible itself is the standard by which Atheists/Agnostics judge the Christian God."
Atheists judge both the bible and Christians based on their own personal manufactured standards of morality which they have concocted out of "humanism" -read the three Humanist Manifestos: they are blatantly manufactured "ethics" which are modified to conform to political correctness in their statement of elite control over the hopeless masses: political, socialist ethics of the elite.
2. "How convenient for Him. An illogical explanation offered by the author. This makes this "loving God" sound more like Kim Jong Il than a "loving God."
Claiming illogic without a pointer to the fallacy committed along with an explanation of specific failure within the statement is not an argument, it is merely a diversion.
Kim Jong Il is an Atheist. He is a remnant of the Atheo-humanist secular experiments of the 20th century. He is a poster-boy for Atheist humanism as represented by the "new man" theorists.
3. "Secular-based human rights"...
The infamous "secular human rights" experiment was performed in the French Revolution: it resulted in the Reign of Terror and the massacre of tens of thousands including entire towns and villages. Secular-based human rights is a code word for Consequentialism. It uses a faux concern for "humanity" to give power to the elite at the deadly expense to individual humans. Atheists claim to love humanity in a theoretical sense, yet they show no love for either individual humans or masses of humans in the pragmatic sense.
4. " I'm starting to feel sorry for this guy. If he really believes this, he is very ignorant. Nobody that I know of has suggested that natural disasters are evil "in and of themselves." It is this supposed God, who claims to be all powerful and all knowing who is evil when He allows these things to happen."
Picking at nits doesn't deter the obvious: Atheists claim that God is evil, based on their own judgment that allowing natural disasters - an artifact of a natural universe - is evil. They have defined evil to suit themselves.
5. Your comment makes no sense to me; you will have to make specific charges, not just generalities. What decisions do Atheists, as a group, think are "bad" and warrant consequences? What specific part of the "supposed word of God" makes "God a hypocrite" when contrasted with #3?
General blanket charges are not useful in that they convey no information, only opinion. In order to persuade, specific information is needed.
Morgan,
Thanks for your comment. I have written on agnosticism, but probably only the comment sections, I don't recall for sure.
The lack of distinction between "weak Atheism" and agnosticism is the usual topic.
Agnosticism is thought to be rationally tenable, whereas Atheism is not. That's why some Atheists claim either weak Atheism or agnosticism, a claim that is intellectually dishonest, based on their actual belief that there is no deity.
True agnosticism is based on two things: a need for material proof of a deity; and a lack of, or objection to, introspective search for truth. For these reasons, I no longer consider agnosticism to be rationally tenable other than short term, during an objective search for truth.
Thanks Stan,
I hold similar beliefs in regards to agnostic thought. It's well and good to start from such a position, but you cannot rationally hold it forever if you are truly seeking the truth. At some point, you've GOT to accept a base tenant somewhere and work your way toward whichever worldview you believe is the correct one.
There's my nickel.
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