Wednesday, August 19, 2009

How To Scare A Liberal

Nat Hentoff has penned liberal viewpoints for decades. Not necessarily modern “liberal” viewpoints, which are statist, fascist, anti-constitutional. Hentoff reveres the constitution and its guarantees of freedoms for individuals and freedom from government-by-pit-bull. In other words he is an old line liberal, as opposed to the new court-activist, anti-democracy Democrats.

Hentoff has stood against the would-be tyrants and anti-democrats of the past half century. In an on-line article for Jewish World Review, Hentoff claims never to have been scared; but now he is:
“I was not intimidated during J. Edgar Hoover's FBI hunt for reporters like me who criticized him. I railed against the Bush-Cheney war on the Bill of Rights without blinking. But now I am finally scared of a White House administration. President Obama's desired health care reform intends that a federal board (similar to the British model) — as in the Center for Health Outcomes Research and Evaluation in a current Democratic bill — decides whether your quality of life, regardless of your political party, merits government-controlled funds to keep you alive. Watch for that life-decider in the final bill. It's already in the stimulus bill signed into law.”
[emphasis added]
Hentoff discusses the Emmanuel Complete Lives System of deciding the value of a particular human to be weighed against the cost of health services:
“Emanuel writes about rationing health care for older Americans that "allocation (of medical care) by age is not invidious discrimination." (The Lancet, January 2009) He calls this form of rationing — which is fundamental to Obamacare goals — "the complete lives system." You see, at 65 or older, you've had more life years than a 25-year-old. As such, the latter can be more deserving of cost-efficient health care than older folks.”

Hentoff quotes "Wesley J. Smith, a continually invaluable reporter and analyst of, as he calls his most recent book, the "Culture of Death: The Assault on Medical Ethics in America" (Encounter Books).

Smith:

"Remember that legislation itself is only half the problem with Obamacare. Whatever bill passes, hundreds of bureaucrats in the federal agencies will have years to promulgate scores of regulations to govern the details of the law.

"This is where the real mischief could be done because most regulatory actions are effectuated beneath the public radar. It is thus essential, as just one example, that any end-of-life counseling provision in the final bill be specified to be purely voluntary … and that the counseling be required by law to be neutral as to outcome. Otherwise, even if the legislation doesn't push in a specific direction — for instance, THE GOVERNMENT REFUSING TREATMENT — the regulations could." (Emphasis added.) “
As the Democrats have shown in the past, they are perfectly willing to slip nasty legislation into previously innocuous bills at 3 a.m., and then initiate the legislation by executive order – without a vote. There are plenty of sneak procedures available to congress to produce legislation secretly and without scrutiny.

Hentoff:
“Condemning the furor at town-hall meetings around the country as "un-American," Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are blind to truly participatory democracy — as many individual Americans believe they are fighting, quite literally, for their lives.

”I wonder whether Obama would be so willing to promote such health care initiatives if, say, it were 60 years from now, when his children will — as some of the current bills seem to imply — have lived their fill of life years, and the health care resources will then be going to the younger Americans?”
Hentoff should realize that Obama’s children will be so wealthy that insurance will be a non-issue for them. Mostly the elderly poor will suffer under Obama’s scheme.

12 comments:

Martin said...

Do you think we should pay taxes, which the government then uses some of which on police and fire departments?

Stan said...

Since I know that there is another shoe to drop, why not let me know what it is... then I'll answer the full thought.

Martin said...

Well, my thought is that perhaps paying some taxes, and using those funds for SOME government services is good. Basic infrastructure, such as military defense, courts, roads, police, and fire.

So I'm thinking that it MAY not be completely anathema to include healthcare as basic infrastructure, as without the health of your citizens, the other services are kind of moot...

So the question is: do you LIKE paying taxes which are spent on police and fire? And do you agree that that SHOULD be done? If so, then why is their a huge dividing line between that and health?

Stan said...

Your argument can be carried even further: a happy population is an asset; therefore the government should make everyone happy, regardless of what it takes, or what it costs. In fact the government should feed me and provide me a house and a car and bigscreen TV and highspeed internet computers and on and on. That would make me happy. But wait, my neighbor might be happier than I am, so I might need to litigate to get as much happy as he has. He gets better food and nicer furniture and newer computers: discrimination! We must fight! Fill the courts with lawsuits!

Story telling can take a turn in any direction...

As I said before, if the population of the USA decides to form a contract with the properly uninsured out of taxpayer's money, it is their decision. But to force my insurance company to accept pre-existing conditions without commensurate rates is wealth distribution pure and simple. I have to pay for it, out of my pants. They are modifying the contract between me and my insurance company, and neither of the two actual parties to the agreement have any say in the matter.

When the government meddles in private contracts, it is fascism. If it succeeds, as it seems to have succeeded in the auto industry, there will be no stopping the meddling - all for "moral" purposes of course.

But of course, meddling is not what the Obamacrats want, is it? They want single payer, equal outcome (except for themselves, the elites), total control. It will be run like the post office, or worse: your end-of-life care will be non-existant. The Emmanuel curve has already evaluated your worth, and that of your parents and grandparents... as well as unborn children.

Oh, and the curve can be updated at will; it depends upon the cost/shortage ratio that comes with bureaucratic management.

It has been calculated that the uninsureds could have been insured with a tiny fraction of the bailout funds. Where did the federal government put that money??

Not into their precious health care.

Martin said...

But why is it OK to use tax money to pay for a fire department? Do you appreciate the fire department or would you prefer it not exist?

Stan said...

First off, your analogy is faulty. It is apples and oranges (a logical fallacy). Most people are able to care for themselves, including food, housing, employment, and insurance.

Most people are not able to fight a house fire without assistance.

Apples and oranges. Also known as the Black and White Fallacy.

Further, I don't pay taxes for fire protection. Our rural fire district is a cooperative, and one may choose to join or not to join. If one does not join, then if he has a fire and chooses to have the district fight it, he will pay the full amount of the cost of fighting the fire. It works much like insurance.

You are attempting to justify health insurance by using a (faulty) analogy. You have done this a lot in the past, and it doesn't work. Why not just address the actual issues of health care, rather than try to justify it through the back door?

If indigents and pre-existing conditions deserve special government coverage, then make the argument.

Martin said...

What about hard working people who, through no fault of their own, cannot afford health and insurance and for whom it is not offered at their job?

Also, what about people with no health insurance who get sick, declare bankruptcy, and then force the insurance company to shift the cost over to us, the payers?

Stan said...

What about them? Are you about to make a case?

Stan said...

I won't be around until tonight, but go ahead and make your case: these categories of people deserve free health care because [reason 1, 2, etc], and is justified by [principle 1, 2, etc].

Martin said...

Bankruptcy issues:

1. People who cannot afford or do not wish to pay for health insurance sometimes get sick.
2. When they do, they cannot afford the cost, and so in many cases declare bankruptcy.
3. Since the hospitals lose money on these cases, they must make up for it somewhere.
4. That cost is shifted unfairly to paying patients.
5. Therefore, it would be better to use taxes to cover them to some degree rather than have higher costs for everyone due to frequent bankruptcy.

Martin said...

Deserving of free health care:

I don't really have anything, here. I was reacting to your resistance to providing free health care for pre-existing conditions and properly uninsured.

Simply that there is a large segment of the population that is a) hard working, b) but isn't provided with benefits by their jobs, and c)isn't paid enough by their jobs to afford private health insurance. I.E., they are doing nothing wrong, per se.

However, just for fun I'll still give it a shot. Keep in mind I don't necessarily agree with my own reasoning here. I'm just thinking out loud:

1. Humans are social creatures.
2. Due to 1, community is just as important to survivability as individualism ("it takes a village to raise a child")
3. A capable individual is able to provide for himself his basic animal needs (food, water, shelter).
4. However, some basic needs are difficult for the individual to provide for himself, such as a team of fire fighters to come quickly when his home is burning, or a team of surgeons to remove his tumor.
5. Therefore, these types of needs fall under the "community" category rather than the "individual" category.
6. The community should have compassion and come to his aid.
7. However, greed and individualism are powerful forces, and in some cases the individual will be left out in the cold to die.
8. Therefore, to counteract this, there should be laws that require the community to pitch in and help those with needs that can't be provided for themselves.

CAVEAT REPEATED: I'm kinda half playing Devil's advocate.

Stan said...

Except for #2 and #8 I don't think your sample argument is too bad. You can just skip #2 (which is arguable) and the argument remains the same only stronger, I think.

#8 is not a piece of logic, it is a "should", or moral statement. (An imperative).

I don't disagree; as I have said before, if the populace agrees that free health care should be a national imperative, and then taxes themselves to provide that, fine. But it is not OK to insert a system that will absolutely result in rationing health care based on a eugenic curve of relative human value. And it is not OK to insert a system where loafers, druggies, and sluggards are handed benefits on a plate, nor where illegal aliens flock in for their free health care [as they do in Britain], nor any of the other obvious abuses that government systems introduce.

Our government cannot even keep the millions of illegal aliens out of the country, a basic service for the benefit of all Americans. Our government cannot control the waste or fraud in the existing government health care system (Medicare). Our government is chronically incompetent and wastrel. Handing them another huge bureaucracy with a monster cash flow is not rational. Giving an addict a huge wad of cash doesn't make sense.

So I must ask, where's the vote of the populace for such a moral judgment? Who would be covered that absolutely should not be? If we look at history, what would we expect of such a monstrous seizure of the private sphere? How are we going to pay for the $13 Trillion that Obama has already charged us with, in order to pay for the government inflicted American Dream housing/credit bust? The same clowns are still in charge, ya' know....

No raise in taxes? Wealthy all tapped out? Inflation: the Left's BFF. Perhaps you are not old enough to remember what it's like under double digit inflation a la Jimmy Carter: it is very destructive of the social fabric, from the bottom up. But the liberal Left loves inflation, because it gives the appearance of more tax dollars for them to spend. And they can pay back debt with cheap dollars. But it is fool's money, and it cannot sustain, so it crashes - check out third world economies that inflate exponentially. The poor pay with starvation. That's the liberal way.

Obama has already set us up for inflation. The Left will spend their "windfall" like crazy for awhile. It won't trickle down. It will be absorbed in an ever growing government black hole.

Am I against compassionate health care for the needy? No. Am I against a Leftist, statist government solution? Absolutely.

There are already laws on the books that demand/decree that non-profit hospitals MUST provide a certain percentage of pro bono health care. Like the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - EMTALA - which act Michelle Obama was paid handsomely to circumvent by "patient dumping" on other hospitals during her stint at the University of Chicago Medical Center. Patients without means were transported to other hospitals, in order to help the bottom line at UCMC.

But still, enforcement of existing laws (and maybe loosening the benefits some, while tightening enforcement) should do what is required. Why not do that? Because that is not what the Left really wants.

I'd better stop while I'm still under the max byte requirement for a single post....