Saturday, March 1, 2014

How To Argue For Atheism in Five or More Logical Fallacies

Chris Tognotti teaches Atheists how to respond to five “misconceptions” about Atheism:

COMMON ARGUMENT #1: ATHEISM IS ARROGANT IN ITS CERTAINTY THAT THERE IS NO GOD.
Your Response: Refusing to believe something which has no meaningful supportive evidence, and stating confidently that you don’t, is not arrogant. Let’s say I believe that rocks don’t talk to each other, for example. That can’t be 100 percent proven. If that’s arrogant, I’d have to remain agnostic on the talking rock proposition.

There are undoubtedly individual atheists who are arrogant — a figure like the late Christopher Hitchens, who in writing and public debate was one of the most electrifying atheist speakers in the world, is nonetheless pretty easily indicted of arrogance. But the charge that atheism itself is an arrogant view of life or the universe? Not so much. It’s really a fundamentally unassuming outlook. It begs no immediate answers, and it doesn’t threaten punishment for waiting and seeing.
This answer first asserts the common, unthinking Category Error which infests Atheism. The call for evidence is generally meant to include only physical evidence. And here is the weakest of modifiers: he uses the term “meaningful” to excuse himself from evidence which exists, by demeaning it in advance: the Common Poisoning of the Well Fallacy. He makes the false knowledge claim of knowing that there exists no meaningful evidence; he makes no attempt to back that claim with actual universal knowledge of its truth. It remains an empty claim with no meaningful supporting evidence itself.

But the real charge remains unanswered: the declaration of certainty is a knowledge claim, the claim to know for immutable fact, that there is no deity. That claim is not just arrogant, it is irrational. Such a position is far from his claim to be “unassuming”; in fact it assumes knowledge which the Atheist cannot and does not have: the assumption is blatant and is logically impossible. So the irrationality of the Atheist comes forth immediately. Claiming universal knowledge of non-existence is, in fact, arrogant.

2. ARGUMENT: ATHEISTS HAVE NO MORAL FRAMEWORK.
Your Response: Quite the contrary! There’s a case to be made that the search for moral truth is more important, and more noble, if it’s pursued for its own sake. Claiming that morality is only true or binding if God hands it down to us just isn’t true. Considering many of the world’s major holy books contain divine orders that seem flatly immoral — calls for violence, slavery, sexual discrimination and the like — religion’s claim to absolute morality seems shakier still.“
Here the Atheist both denies the charge and admits it in the very next sentence: internal contradiction. But “searching for moral truth” is not a moral premise, nor is it a moral framework. It demonstrates the actual state of morality for the Atheist: unknown, not actualized, non-existent. Further, whatever the search might find would be personal, not universal; it would be subjective and relativist, not objective and binding.

The further charge against religious morality is a Tu Quoque, and a Red Herring; the issue is being deviated away from the actual issue, which is Atheist morality. Instead, he is changing the subject to something which he thinks he can actually defend, a childish tactic, especially since his comprehension of biblical morality has hardly reached the juvenile level. Plus he cannot prove that it “just isn’t true”, so his claim is merely opinion which is not “supported” (succumbing to the exact fault which he charged in the first argument just above).

3. ARGUMENT: PROMOTING ATHEISM IS ITSELF A FORM OF EVANGELISM.
Your Response: Atheism is not a religion.

Religions are, by definition, statements of belief. Atheism is not a statement of belief — it’s a statement of non-belief. While faith aspires to convince you of an evidence-free assertion, atheism does nothing more than point to it and say “no reason to believe that.” It doesn’t state as fact any claims about the universe it can’t demonstrate in a researched scientific structure. And perhaps most distinctly from faith, it’s comfortable sitting in a space of unknowing.:
This is the tired Atheist dodge which claims not to have religion as part of its religious focus, and which claims further not to have any beliefs, being only “non-belief”. This is so transparently false, that it is an indicator of the length to which Atheists will go in their attempt to (a) deceive and (b) avoid addressing the content of their own belief system. This doesn’t just drip dishonesty, it is a flood of dishonesty.

4. ARGUMENT: ATHEISTS SECRETLY KNOW GOD EXISTS, THEY JUST HATE HIM/HER/IT.
Your Response: Look, Atheists are not blind to the finer joys of life, however much believers sometimes doubt it. Just because we don’t think the significance is supernatural doesn’t mean we’re lying about feeling the presence of God, or are in some state of bitter denial. We really aren’t blithely ignoring fears and concerns we secretly have about eternal judgement. By and large, we don’t believe a word of it.

If somebody tells you they don’t believe in God, try really believing them, and considering how it would affect your perspective if you came to feel as they did.”
First this is no answer in any universe. This actually represents the exact type of subjective “feeling” that Atheists reject in the religious. They see no reason to believe in someone else’s feeling. Why should anyone believe in what they claim their own feelings to be? If their feelings are "necessarily" accurate, but they claim that the feelings of others are not valid, that is the blatant Special Pleading Fallacy. So under their own rules their personal subjective feelings are rejected.

Second, the argument itself is probably too general, yet it certainly applies to a large, very large, segment of the Atheist population. And how are they to respond meaningfully if their protests are not accompanied by meaningful supporting evidence? Another Special Pleading Fallacy.

There are other reasons to turn Atheist which are just as irrational, including the carrot/stick of total moral and intellectual untethered freedom from absolutes (including rational logic) and the freedom from all norms of moral restrictions. And just basic juvenile rebellion, which can and does exist up to the age of 28, when the frontal cortex finally matures.

5. ARGUMENT: TALKING ABOUT ATHEISM IN MIXED COMPANY IS RUDE AND CONDESCENDING.
Your Response: If I told you I didn’t like your favorite movie, or the politician you voted for, it might irritate you, but it would probably still be a conversation starter — not a conversation ender.

This doesn’t work as neatly with religion, which makes sense. It’s really, really vulnerable to have faith in God in an age of advanced scientific discovery. As such, it’s damn near impossible to make the case for Atheism without it being quite hurtful to the believer. It doesn’t just sound like “everything you believe most deeply is untrue,” it is precisely a belief in that.

Here’s a deal we can strike: I promise not to get too riled up if you’re into a God who’d send me to hell … if you promise not to freak out that I think Jesus stayed dead. Can we shake on that?

Glad we talked.”


And here the Atheist-Scientismist arrogance leaks out all over the place, making it very slippery for the Atheist-Scientismist. First, the Atheist cannot hold religious conversations, because of the charges he makes next:

”. It doesn’t just sound like “everything you believe most deeply is untrue,” it is precisely a belief in that.”

If this isn’t the precise essence of modern Atheism, it at least is very close to the core. With no evidence of his own, no possibility of evidence of his own, yet demanding evidence which he demeans in advance as not meaningful, the Atheist takes the – maximally arrogant – position stated just above. To wit: everything that YOU believe in is untrue, as if the Atheist has some special knowledge of Truth, existence and the source of life. This is another knowledge claim, regarding knowledge which the Atheist cannot and specifically does not have. Yet this is the rigid position which for the Atheist serves as his "Truth", and which makes him superior to the non-Atheist and therefore unable to converse civilly with one. The irrationality is obvious.

Atheists want tolerance for their non-moral lifestyle while attacking religions relentlessly. Atheism has a documented track record in the history of world communities of Atheism-based social systems. These have shown the degree of amorality and irrationality which infests Atheism when it gains power. It is not pretty and it is not utopia and it is not rational.

15 comments:

Steven Satak said...

Thanks for that primer, Stan. We need to keep this stuff in front of us periodically so that we can recognize these flaws and contradictions when they occur and combat them, in season and out.

Of course, engaging the atheist in rational argument is a complete waste of time. They are not rational to begin with, as is evidenced by their belief system (which they insist is NOT a belief system).

No, what we can do (at best) is point out that, whatever else they are, the average atheist is speaking from ignorance and egoism. Then shut up and stand back, because they tend to self-destruct with their own foolishness shortly after.

If the audience they've attracted can at least get a clear view that the atheist is NOT morally and intellectually superior, a lot of the hot air will have been let out. And they almost never put up any of this contradictory crap in private - it's nearly always playing to an audience.

I can only think of one exception to that last statement, and his response to my offer to trade a copy of Mere Christianity for a copy of the God Delusion was to sit on Lewis's book for a year before returning it, unread, while demanding to know what I thought of 'The God Delusion". (This guy always has to be the smartest guy in the room, so I rarely engage him in conversation.)

Robert Coble said...

I read a book review on Amazon regarding Dr. Spitzer's book. The money quote (after reading paragraphs of vitriolic bile):

"No. I haven't read the book."

What twists of illogic does it take to savage a book in a review, while admitting that you have never read it?!?

Stan said...

Jerry Coyne does that, and Edward Feser takes him down for it. Coyne's own book, "Why Evolution Is True" provides nothing but inferences and no actual immutable truth.

Similar to Lawrence Krauss' book, "A Universe From Nothing" which shows no such thing - instead a universe starting from a pre-existing quantum field (a pre-existing field is an oxymoron, since there must be x,y,z space for a field to exist within).

In both cases, fraudulent titles to gain readers. Unfortunately I bought both. Do NOT repeat my error.

Another one was French Atheist, Michel Onfray, who produced two books I bought. But when I got them, they were the exact same book with two different titles and covers: more fraud. Do NOT buy his books, or rather book of two titles, maybe more by now.

Russell said...

Thanks Stan for always doing a solid job.

I find it interesting that the atheists keep producing fraudulent and bait-and-switch books. If they really had Truth with a capital 'T', why the subterfuge? I keep seeing it as proof that without a moral framework exterior to their wishes, they can justify any sort of shenanigans.

Anonymous said...

Similar to Lawrence Krauss' book, "A Universe From Nothing" which shows no such thing - instead a universe starting from a pre-existing quantum field (a pre-existing field is an oxymoron, since there must be x,y,z space for a field to exist within)//

I find this confusing,after reading "The Search for Schrodingers Cat".
The book mentions dark matter but does not elaborate on it and how it affects our universe.
Atheists claim:
1)The Universe was born out of a vacuum as a result of quantum fluctuations.

Theist responds:
The amount of energy needed from the vacuum to cause the Big bang would have been too great and the corresponding time too small to allow for a visible universe.it would have dissapeared instantly in accordance with Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle:ΔEΔt≥h/2π

Atheist rebuttal:
The total amount of positive energy from matter combined with the total amount of negative energy from gravity cancels out the universe's total energy,thus allowing for an unlimited time expansion of the universe.

Theist rebuttal:
You have given me your (atheist) version of the Equilibrium of Forces,which states that when equal forces actinng in opposite directions on an object cancels out each others forces and causing a zero resultant.So the object remains unaffected.
But extrapolating this theory on to a Total free energy Universe does not compute.Because gravity can never be zero,it affects all matter every where at all times throughout the universe.So there must be a deviation in the equlibrium if your theory is to be true.

Atheist rsponse:
yes there is a deviation and its called dark matter.

I had a conversation like this with an atheist on another site and it usually stops when i say,"prove it".

Robert Coble said...

PART I:

It has been interesting to follow the "discussion" between Dr. Feser and Dr. Parsons on their respective blogs.

One of the assertions made by Dr. Parsons was that Bertrand Russell's argument against the First Cause was an obvious and sufficient refutation of ALL First Cause arguments. After quoting Russell, Dr. Parsons added this scintillating summary: "Exactly."

I refer you to pp. 3-4 of the link for Russell's "The First Cause Argument".

(Link: http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/Why%20I%20am%20Not%20a%20Christian%20-%20Bertrand%20Russell.pdf)

Dr. Feser asked a question (actually, question 3 of 4) requesting Dr. Parsons to provide one citation of ANY notable theistic philosopher who had ever made the First Cause argument as given by Russell. If no such citation could be produced, then Dr. Feser asserted that Russell's argument was a "straw man".

Dr. Parsons then responded with an entirely new argument (supposedly "strengthening" Russell's argument), without producing ONE CITATION showing that any theistic philosopher had ever attempted to support Russell's form of the argument. In short, he evaded supporting his own original assertion that Russell's version was the "real" First Cause argument and NOT a "straw man".


Robert Coble said...

PART II:

The crucial distinction is in the following:

Russell's argument (leaving out his introduction):

"If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument."

The problem is that theistic philosophers do NOT assert any such nonsense starting with "Everything must have a cause."

The A-T Scholastic approach is to very carefully elaborate a metaphysical argument that rests on the following assertion:

"Everything that begins to exist must have a cause (which logically cannot be itself)."

Leaving out the crucial qualification that begins to exist DOES make Russell's argument a "straw man."

Moving on... What floored me was what followed (quoting again from Russell):

"The argument is really no better than that. There is no reason why the world could not have come into being without a cause; nor, on the other hand, is there any reason why it should not have always existed. There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. The idea that things must have a beginning is really due to the poverty of our imagination. Therefore, perhaps, I need not waste any more time upon the argument about the First Cause."

The assertion "There is no reason why the world could not have come into being without a cause" is mind-boggling, especially coming from the likes of Russell.

Robert Coble said...

PART III:

I just finished reading the entire Russell monograph "Why I Am Not A Christian". (Refer to the link given in PART I.)

This seems to be a collection of the atheist tropes usually given as justification for rejection of theism.

I had never read the entire monograph before. I had a respect for Russell based on his reputation as a "great thinker". No more: this collection of crappy assertions, juvenile snarkiness and lousy logic is simply stunning, coming from someone who is reputed to be a great logician and philosopher.

How can this be?!?

Stan said...

I still have respect for Russell in the arenas where he stayed away from dualism/monism and religion. I have his Nine Lectures on Mind, for example which is really pretty good, and he finally acknowledged a need for a dual account for acausal agency. But he couldn't follow it to a logical conclusion, so he claimed that the duality would be a "different kind" of physical existence yet unknown.

Russell was intellectually honest enough to admit to the failure of "Russell's Paradox" to allow complete description and analysis of mathematical systems without referral to a higher system (Godel's letter to him). That was a serious hit to the Mathematica Russell was writing with Whitehead, not to mention a limitation to knowability under human limitations.

Some years back I wrote a line by line logical analysis of his speech "Why I Am Not a Christian", where I referred each point in each comment to its associated Fallacy and/or logic defect. Virtually every statement in that speech was laden with vitriolic hatred, not rational dispassionate analysis. Apparently it was met with thunderous applause by an undiscriminating, ideological crowd.

Stan said...

Forgot to add that the line by line analysis is available at the website associated with this blog... buried in there somewhere.

Robert Coble said...

Stan:

Do you still have your analysis? Is it accessible online? I would love to read it!

Robert Coble said...

Stan:

Our posts just missed each other. I'll search for it when i get off work tonight. Thanks!

Stan said...

Tell ya what, I'll dig it up a little later and post it. For now, gotta git...

Robert Coble said...

Stan:

I found a reference to it in eBook 2: Atheism Analysis, Part II:

3.6.9 Bertrand Russell, British Philosopher and Mathematician.

Russell is well known for many things, one of which is his 1927 paper entitled “Why I Am Not A Christian”. In it he outlines what he sees as fallacies and wrong-doings that falsify Christianity and religion in general. For an analysis of his logic, see Appendix E, “Why I Am Not A Christian”.


Unfortunately, I could not find Appendix E.

Thanks for your help!

Stan said...

Yep. I did not include it for some reason. This goes back to '06 when I started writing this stuff, and stuffing it on the website.

I found a hard copy, and I am redoing it into HTML for web use, plus adding some comments to it.

Maybe later today. It's nearly done.

Sorry for the confusion, I thought it was included, but found the same thing you found when I looked. Obviously it's been a long time since I looked at that stuff..