Monday, May 8, 2017

Life and Death Under Islam Majority

Survivor: Chechen Police Tells Parents ‘Kill Your Gay Children Or We’ll Do It’

Authorities from the predominantly Muslim Republic of Chechnya, an autonomous province in Russia, have threatened parents of gay children, warning them, “Either you kill them, or we we will,” reports France24, citing testimony from one of the victims of alleged concentration camps for homosexuals operated by the local government.
It''s all good though; they are the religion of peace and make good neighbors... unless you're on their kill list.


Reak said...

What difference does it make that authorities are Muslims? It could be extremist Christians, their text support such atrocities just as much... if a man lies with another man...

Stan said...

Perhaps you haven't noticed: Christians don't burn gays or throw them off of buildings. Neither do Jews. The Old Testament Law Texts were three-fold in their intent, including specific focus on their contemporary society. Are you not familiar with the context of biblical legalisms? Are you not familiar with why they no longer allow slavery?

Show me the text in red print where the biblical account of Jesus says to slay all homosexuals. I think you'll find it says something more on the order of "love all sinners", and that all people are sinners no matter how self-righteous they present themselves.

Islam, however, has brought its society through the 1500 years since Muhammad with the same society, virtually identical to the barbarous society that Muhammad lived in, without any significant change at all, at least until oil was discovered in their desert. The oil only allowed their corruption to become visible and threatening to the world outside the range of camels. And they do, in fact, slaughter gays - maybe you remember the dance hall slaughter, just in the last year? Not a Christian shooter, was he.

However, you will find that Christians do defend themselves, after a while, anyway. The south half of Europe was conquered and enslaved by Muslims, before the Crusades were organized to liberate Europe and drive the Muslims back to Palestine. And yes, the Muslims still take slaves, don't they? And they kill heretics, even other Muslims such as Sunni vs. Shia, and terrorists vs. all arabs who are not them.

You'll believe what is convenient to you, though. Unless you actually want to pursue the truth (John Locke, paraphrased).

Reak said...

Ever heard of Uganda?

Of course Christians are, on average, much much better than Muslims, but that does not mean that Muslims cannot be peaceful nor that Christians cannot be awful.

Steven Satak said...

Reak, the point Stan might be trying to make is not that Christians *cannot* be awful - all of us can - but that, 99 out of a hundred times, they're *not*. Because throwing gays off a tall building and killing your daughter for the family 'honor' are forbidden behaviors. And most of the time, Christians obey those injunctions.

Please note that a Christian of whatever stripe instantly makes the headlines when he kills an abortionist. It's very rare behavior. And other Christians quickly voice their disapproval.

But Muslims are cutting off heads on an industrial scale - cutting off clitorises on an even larger scale - and boast of it. Or haven't you seen the videos yet? And very, very few Muslims actively deny any of it.

Islam is a barracks religion, made up for soldiers in the 7th Century. It was created out of the Jewish and Christian traditions. It is a heresy.

Stan said...

You pick Uganda as your example of Christian behavior? Then I pick Cambodia's killing fields as representative of Atheist behavior. Oh, and Mao's China, Lenin/Stalin's USSR, Castro/Che's Cuba, and North Korea. Oh, and... never mind. Either you get it or you don't. Or won't.

I needn't list countries where Muslims are killing Christians in a genocide which the western press takes no notice of. Western countries still prefer to give asylum to Muslims over Christians. Leftism loves Muslims, hates the Christian roots of its own culture. Leftism loves Islam, because Islam shares the hatred of Christianity.

Hatred of Christians is very popular at the moment. It appears that you're in with the popular crowd.

When Christianity is finally purged altogether, what moral system will be directed upon the people? Atheists have none. The US Constitution is laughed at. Muslims will not be purged, and will be extraordinarily fecund and the morality/governing principles will be the hate-based Islam which the Left and Atheists are so enamored of. But under Sharia, the Atheists and gays and fluid-genders and feminists and Leftists will not be tolerated. But congratulations, because the Evil Christians are gone.

What will exist is the utopia which Leftists want: no dissent, uniformity in all things, singularity of minds. That's what exists after all dissenters are killed, non-uniformities are pounded down with sufficient force, and one single thought process is allowed while all others are eradicated with the whip.

In other words, Sharia. Because that's how it will happen, due merely to the numbers and the very, very long view of Islam.

BTW, have you seen the videos of Muslim women justifying wife-beating?

Steve 11 said...

The root issue is that Muslims think they are doing God's will, with no proof that their brand of disdain for sexual preferences is better than the Christian brand. There's probably some groupthink involved as well.

This is an inherent moral issue with theism, especially since we know at least some versions of beliefs as to God's preferences are incorrect, both within Christianity and without. There is no objective way to resolve whose human belief as to God's preference is correct.

Divine command theorists say there is no overriding morality above God's will, so reasoning as to things like harm is not something they allowed to use as an arbiter. If we were to use reasoning, it's easy to come to the conclusion that endowing some people with homosexual urges and then claiming satisfying those urges would lead to eternal punishment is cruel, as would physically harming them in any way. It's also easy to see by mere humans that this would lead necessarily and directly to conflict, division, and depression.

I think you'll see a nearly full turnaround in our lifetime where Christians shift from the human belief that God dislikes homosexual acts to the belief that God is indifferent to them, and that the cause of the shift will be reasoning and observation of human behavior. This shift, of course, is already in progress. The Jehovah's witnesses might lag behind a bit - they're a fun lot.

Stan said...

Hello Steve 11,
"This is an inherent moral issue with theism, especially since we know at least some versions of beliefs as to God's preferences are incorrect, both within Christianity and without. There is no objective way to resolve whose human belief as to God's preference is correct."

This is correct. And it is why the subject of deity is subjective, intuitive, and without any valid criticism from those whose subjective, intuitive understandings differ. And that is the essence of the New Testament. Non-judgmentalism is prescribed, yet difficult to impossible to achieve with any consistency.

That - non-judgmentalism - is fully non-consistent with Islam per the Prophet.

The Christian ideal of non-judgmentalism is sometimes lost amongst the attacks on religion from the Left and the victimhood classes for which the Left serves as self-anointed messiahs. The loss of non-judgmentalism is a Christian's problem to admit and resolve.

The attacks on Christians is another judgmental problem that sits on the heads of Christian-haters, including Atheo-Leftists, Islam, Marxist/Fascists, and organizations of homosexuals and the many combinations of these.

Under Christianity the judgment of any individual, regardless of human belief, lies not with humans but with the diety. What the deity does is not up to humans to determine, or even condemn unless that human is actually superior to the creating deity. Christianity became an individual's religion after Luther's split with the authoritarian human structure of the Catholic Church. Bibles in ordinary language placed belief systems in the hands of the individual.

The New Testament text, "judge not, lest you be judged" is incontrovertable, and without nuance. Still, that does not preclude analyzing those who attack you, and defending yourself: "sell your garment and buy a sword". And contrarily, it does NOT say, "kill all heretics", or anything of the sort.

The general Christian Church (if there is such a thing) has made the shift as you say, and has shifted several times, say, away from slavery and toward universal human involvement, as in China and Asia, as well as back in Russia.

The cause of the shift will be an increased understanding of the nature of the creating deity. Human reasoning is what caused the horrors of Marxist influence on actors like Lenin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Human reasoning always devolves to a class of "elite" reasoners who are confident that their reasoning will solve the problems of all of the members of the herd, even if it requires that the herd is forced to accept their reasoning. Force multiplication is "reasonable" if the herd is too recalcitrant to accept "what's good for them". Even the authoritarian church fell into that trap.

The Atheo-Left is judgmental to the fullest, just as is Islam. Their class system is built on judging. Those adjudged "guilty" as a class are dehumanized and classified as Deplorables to be vilified to the maximum. As "messiahs" in their own estimations, they are self-enabled to both judge AND punish those who do not conform to their self-revealed moral system, which changes frequently and drastically as whim dictates.