Thursday, January 18, 2018

Trump and the MSM

20 comments:

TrumpIsntQualified said...

Alternative media it is then:
https://youtu.be/7Ss0v90ObI8

Stan said...

The "T" in TPS is for Temporary. In this case, temporary respite from some bad earthquake. 15 years is too long to demand protection from an earthquake, AND their nationality is not USA - they are SALVADORAN! It is an abuse of TPS and American policy to stay here forever.

It is time that they go home, to their actual home which is Salvador, not the USA. They need not break up their family, they can take them all to their actual home which is El Salvador. Children born to aliens in the USA might be considered USA citizens but they are not denied the citizenship of their parents and can follow their parents to the nation of their heritage.

Here is a documentary on a Los Angeles gang member who was deported. he found redemption in El Salvador, yet doesn't want more people coming into El Salvador due to increased crime and economic reasons: imagine that. It's the same reason that the USA doesn't need them here.

Stan said...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/americas/el-salvador-reformed-gang-members-tps/index.html

TrumpIsntQualified said...

You think it's ok that there is no path to becomeing a citizen from TPS, even after 15 years here?
Don't you know that most visas are temporary in nature to start with? OPT, H1B, TN, O, etc... these are all temporary but people can apply for permanent residency. The issue here is that this family couldn't, just like many others. Why not help them via legal processes instead if deporting them?

What did they do wrong?

Stan said...

I don't think that it is OK for TPS people to be here for 15 years. That is ridiculous. Their presence here is for humanitarian reasons which ceased to exist well over a decade ago. Thus they should have returned long ago instead of milking the USA system.

If they want to be citizens they must apply like anyone else from anywhere else in the world. They can apply for green cards for primary worker and family. That is probably the easiest way, but there are limits.

Why do you think the laws should be broken for a specific class of people and not for all people from everywhere? What did the other people do wrong that they should be discriminated against?

Steven Satak said...

"Why do you think the laws should be broken for a specific class of people and not for all people from everywhere?"

When you start with an elitist viewpoint - that there's one set of rules for you and another set for everyone else - and you add identity politics, it's easy to understand why TrumpIsntQualified would want the TPS people treated as an exception to the law - without considering what damage that does to the rest of our society.

His/her very name should indicate where he/she stands on this - it's been a year now and they're STILL squalling for their binkie. Children think like this because they are of necessity sheltered and do not suffer most of the real-world consequences of their choices. With children, this behavior is acceptable because it is part of the learning process.

With adults, it's unseemly and to me, a bit revolting.

TrumpIsntQualified said...

Who said anything about breaking thr law? The point is that the law, or its implementation, is cruel.
Why renew the TPS if not to give them a path to permanent residency?
Why kick them out now 15 years later? That's the most inhumane option possible in all of this.
Milking the USA system... is this a joke? People don't come here for the services the US has to offer... they come because they 'think' it's going to be great and yes, it's great in many ways, but not because of anything they get from the government! Services suck!

Stan said...

Who said anything about breaking thr law? The point is that the law, or its implementation, is cruel.

If the law is cruel, it should be abolished; What you want is a backdoor to citizenship which bypasses the legal immigration laws. What you and yours have done is to promise something to the TPS temporary guests that is illegal. Your opinion is not the law. So you do advocate illegal action.

Why renew the TPS if not to give them a path to permanent residency?

TPS is temporary, was intended to be temporary, and is not to be misconstrued as permanent, except by appeals to emotions. They understood that it was temporary; they abused that temporary guest humanitarian gesture and now they demand citizenship. If this doesn't register as a) illegal and b)irrational, then you are motivated purely by emotions (a small portion of your brain: the reptilian portion), and not by the frontal cortex.

Why kick them out now 15 years later? That's the most inhumane option possible in all of this.

That is bullshit. They knew then and they know now that temporary does not, ever, mean permanent. There are legal ways to naturalize. They do not exercise them. Too damn bad.

Milking the USA system... is this a joke? People don't come here for the services the US has to offer...

Quote for us here the stats on percent of illegals and TPS who are NOT on the government dole. Being on the government dole is the whole point for the Democrat push to swamp the USA in immigrants: they go on the Democrat dole and become Democrats to keep the dole flowing, just as happened with the Democrat ghetto plantation blacks.

...they come because they 'think' it's going to be great and yes, it's great in many ways, but not because of anything they get from the government! Services suck!

Blatantly not true. It is much MUCH better in the USA than in El Salvador or Guatemala, Nigeria, Somalia, Afghanistan, and all the other shithole countries.

You make up false concepts to support your emotions. I realize that the Post Modern SJW focus is on emotion as fact, AND no truth therefore no reasoning. But it is not a fact that emotion is fact. Emotion is contrary to fact, and is actually the truncation of the mind to the level of pre-cognitive, primitive, pre-simian, blind reaction based on proximal fear and desire only -- never on fact and future. Nor on objective analysis of situation and motivation.

TrumpIsntQualified said...

Look at it this way then:
America first.
Right? It makes sense. Let's help our citizen.

There are 3 citizens, right now, who will lose the support of their parents and have their family broken apart because of a broken system.
What should we do?

A) Status quo, uncertainty but no big consequences for anyone, no extra American suffer

B) Suddenly decide to change the status quo: force people on TPS to leave no matter what. Americans will suffer.

C) Suddenly decide to change the status quo: revise rules. Consider length of stay, children, job, etc... to let people get from TPS to permanent residency when they have demonstrated that they are productive citizen.

Why do you want B)?
Or what else?

Stan said...

I support the concept that a person born to citizens of country XX are citizens of Country XX, only, no matter where they are born.

I realize that is unconstitutional, and that the original intent of the US Constitution had no concept of anchor babies. The intent of the US Constitution did not anticipate anchor babies, and referred rather to babies born to US Citizens - which was fully understood at the time as referenced to the included term, "residence".

I have no regard for the concept of anchor babies, and I hold hostility for the foreign parents who want to leverage their permanent stay in the USA due to having calved on USA property. Anchor babies are "allowed" due to an out-of-context reading of the 14th Amendment, Sec. 1.

Thus your appeal to "American citizens" suffering is without force. Especially since the "suffering" part is without any proof or reason to accept.

Once again: if they want to be American citizens they need to naturalize (Also in the 14th Amendment, Sec. 1).

Anonymous said...

You're a monster and anti-American.
This country welcomes immigrants, alwayd had. Of course we need to be careful about it, but that's not what you advocate. You are willing to go against thr constitution just because you don't like these people.

TrumpIsntQualified said...

Stan, I am sorry but there are so many things wrong with your position; you need to think this through a bit more.

First, it is so inconsistent to complain that the constitution is not in line with what you would want it to be today. Your camp uses the Second Amendment for supporting an insane lack of regulation that indirectly causes the death of hundreds of people every year in the US, some of them being children who are killed by pure accident. The founding fathers had a very different type of guns in mind when they wrote it... Yet, the argument is always that it's a constitutional right that we all have to bear arms, any arm, almost any guns short of rocket launchers! But anchor babies should be addressed today, right now, because of...? There is no good reason, which brings me to the second point.

Second, there is nothing wrong with the notion of an anchor baby. It's good for the economic growth of the country. This is why America wants more immigrants: to have more babies. So even if I grant you that immigrants, on average, cost more to the system than non-immigrants, it is a cost that is totally worth bearing, as it repays itself in the long run. Countries need population growth and we, in the West, have fewer and fewer babies, so we need immigrants to fill the gap. We should thus encourage people to come here, have babies here, and help them integrate and live fulfilling lives that benefit all of society, and them. For our own selfish reasons, we should welcome them; it is counterproductive to try to break apart these families. It's a small investment that can bear valuable fruits. ("A 2017 National Bureau of Economic Research paper found that refugees to the United States pay $21,000 more in taxes than they receive in benefits over their first 20 years in the U.S.")

Third, even if we are to forget everything among economics and the constitution, where is your sense of humanity Stan? Of course, the US shouldn't try to save every single person in every single country, but I don't see the point of trying to do as little as possible. Why not do as much as possible to help fellow human beings? Of course, it shouldn't harm our own interest, but here we have a pretty clear case: a family that escaped violence to come to a better country, the United States of America. So why not make sure that they have the best lives possible now that they are here? Why not make sure that we take care of these humans? It's not like the country cannot easily handle that. Estimates show that there are only 13% of people living here who are foreign born. That includes the 11M illegals, 18M naturalized citizen and 12M permanent resident, leaving only around 1 to 3M on some kind of temporary visa, or around 1% of the residents basically. Do you really think that this 1% is so problematic that we should weed them out?

Finally, the bigger problem here is that the US is not taking good care of its citizen, frankly. Social services are not that great for a rich Western country and that would make everything so much easier for everybody if we could have better safety nets, while keeping a delicate balance in favor of economic growth. This relates to immigration as it would ensure that people who are here already are doing better; this would actually put America first. And there would be much less concerns about the small % of immigrants who should or shouldn't be kicked out.

Stan said...

The US Constitution should be read in the context within which it was written. Your two examples work quite well to demonstrate the difference between original intent, and incorrect re-interpretation.

1. Second Amendment was written with the intent to guarantee the right to private ownership of the same weaponry that the military possesses. Any other interpretation is politically motivated deliberate misinterpretation. You will object to that, but too bad: that’s what it means, and the meaning cannot be changed by opinions, only by subsequent amendment.

2. The fourteenth Amendment was obviously intended for those born to citizens, not random visitors.

The empirical outcome of the deliberate misinterpretation of the fourteenth Amendment is the exponential rise of Russian anchor babies, giving access to citizenship of random, un-vetted Russian extended families due to the chain migration effect. Even Leftists now take notice and object, and that is based on racism of the Left.


Second, there is nothing wrong with the notion of an anchor baby.

People who willingly violate existing US Federal Law do not represent character traits that make desirable citizens, and that is why the naturalization process is needed. And just adding warm-blooded breathers to the population does not represent a positive value by any stretch of the imagination. Legal naturalization is a national benefit; illegal immigration is not. Both Muslim populations and much of the Latino populations – especially in So California – refuse to assimilate, refuse to accept western laws, are not police-able, and are not a positive addition to western culture because they don’t believe in it, and are nearly feral in their behaviors.

Third, even if we are to forget everything among economics and the constitution, where is your sense of humanity Stan?

Where is your consideration of the loss of western culture, including linear thinking via Enlightenment Empirical thought processes? Is it humane in your world to give it over to imported intellectual and cultural anarchy? Unless legal naturalization is the sole process for immigration, then the US is effectively given over to exactly that: uncontrolled access by law breakers who are un-vetted and likely unskilled, and demonstrably disease-bearing and anti-democratic. That includes the MS13 and associated gangs which infest many cities now, having been given free access by Obama.

If your “humanity” includes MS13 free access, and maintaining un-vetted law breaking free access to obtain the “accident” of birth location, count me out. Sentiment without common sense is fatal.

Stan said...

Of course, the US shouldn't try to save every single person in every single country, but I don't see the point of trying to do as little as possible. Why not do as much as possible to help fellow human beings? Of course, it shouldn't harm our own interest, but here we have a pretty clear case: a family that escaped violence to come to a better country, the United States of America. So why not make sure that they have the best lives possible now that they are here? Why not make sure that we take care of these humans? It's not like the country cannot easily handle that.

1. Because it is a crime: Breaks Federal Law.
2. The US Government has zero obligation to make anyone’s life “the best possible”.
3. The “violence” they escaped was an earthquake a decade and a half ago. The cultural violence in El Salvador is an insufficient reason to make Salvadorans into US Citizens, because many Salvadorans live there without issues. So the initial reason for helping them ran out 15 years ago; the new/improved reason is not a real reason.
4. The US has its own barrios and ghettos and no-go zones and rotting infrastructure to deal with, and is obliged to deal with that, not with illegals.

Estimates show that there are only 13% of people living here who are foreign born. That includes the 11M illegals,… Do you really think that this 1% is so problematic that we should weed them out?

Absolutely. Coddling 11M intentional Federal Law-breakers by eliminating legal cause/effect cannot be other than an indication that Federal Law means nothing in the USA. That’s the tack that Obama took, as he violated law after law, demonstrating that Federal Law, for the Left, has no meaning.

Finally, the bigger problem here is that the US is not taking good care of its citizen, frankly.

The US Federal Government is nobody’s Mama. Treating it as your caretaker mother goes directly counter to the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution. It is decidedly socialistic to believe that the government should prevent your failure to take care of your own problems whether potential or actual. That engenders populations of parasites. In past centuries the poor were cushioned by private and religious sources. The US Government has attacked those sources with regulations and the IRS in its attempt to control all aspects of life. Yet when disaster hits, it is still the private and religious sources that show up and work it out. FEMA just gets in the way when it finally does show up. The Joplin tornado and the southern hurricanes are empirical proof of that.

Finally, re-visit Sweden, that icon of Leftist government and naïve empathy. See how immigration has made their country better. Or Norway. Or Denmark. Or Germany. Or France. Or Italy. Or Britain. See how the original population of women enjoy their unvetted immigrants.

The intent of Legal Naturalization is to prevent this, and provide new citizens who will specifically assimilate and be productive.

Stan said...

Sweden today - and tomorrow:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9

TrumpIsntQualified said...

You're all over the place. I said nothing about illegals; I don't support them. This is not what that original video was about.

In any case, the most telling part of your commment is this:
"Both Muslim populations and much of the Latino populations – especially in So California – refuse to assimilate, refuse to accept western laws, are not police-able, and are not a positive addition to western culture because they don’t believe in it, and are nearly feral in their behaviors."

You're racist, period. You have no stats, no reasoning, no argument to defend such position. Muslims, Latinos, anyone, can use enlightenment principles and be a good standing, rational citizen. Assimilation is you wanting them to be more White. Thats racist, you have no leg to stand on and are against enlightenment principles yourself by not properly reasoning on these topics.

But please, stay home and continue your fear mongering... anecdotes are all you have.

Stan said...

Ah. The empty charge of racism. It's all anyone has who needs to attack the concept of ILLEGAL DACA persons. That is all you present as arguments regarding the comments I made. It is the cheapest of counters, as it is screamed at us all day, every day by those who want their illegal actions to be sanctioned because: Oh golly they're an asset ya know.

And assimilation is "whiteness": the new RAAAAAACIST Twist.

Your bigotry is showing: you cannot take reasoning at its face value because it doesn't comport with your Narrative of Social Justice Marxism.

Do you address the racial and religious/sex attacks/murders in Sweden,etc? Nope. You cannot. It would be RACIST and fear mongering to admit to the deadly problems which the Left has brought upon Europe.

You did forget to name-call me as a white nationalist, though. I'm dead certain that open borders, anti-nationalism, and latent pro-globalist mass migration would suit you better than adhering to actual Federal Law on Immigration and Naturalization.

Go ahead and finish up your name calling and then leave. Or I can help you with that.

TrumpIsntQualified said...

You said that Muslim populations and much of the Latino populations refuse to assimilate, refuse to accept western laws, are not police-able.
You said they are nearly feral in their behaviors.

Seriously... how can you not see that as racist comments?
It does not meant that you are a racist person, to be fair, but these comments ARE racists. It's impossible to have a rational discussion with someone who thinks that entire groups of people are that different from the rest.

And you did not get my main point: you are not able to stick to any given topic. You are all over the place.
- Who cares about Sweden? I was giving a precise example of some situation here, in the US of A.
- Who cares about the Narrative of Social Justice Marxism; that's not my position, and I agree with you on most of that.
- Who cares about White Nationalists? I don't think you are as bad as them, though you are working hard on changing that. Are you starting to sympathize with the KKK or what?

But I have told you all that before... you know... you're just someone who is incapable of engaging in rational discourse.

Have fun with the trolls. You seem to prefer that kind of "interactions". Pathetic...

Stan said...

You said that Muslim populations and much of the Latino populations refuse to assimilate, refuse to accept western laws, are not police-able.
You said they are nearly feral in their behaviors.

Seriously... how can you not see that as racist comments?>


Prove that it is not the demonstrable, factual case. Stating facts about the tenets of Islam and the behaviors of the Latinos in central California (for example) is empirical. Much of what I have written you have ignored or declared irrelevant without any reasoning. You have gone straight to the accusative with no reasoning. You have invoked the only argument the Left has: “Racism”.

That is completely mindless. If you want to discuss something then provide contrary facts. Otherwise, get off my lawn. I refuse to discuss baseless accusations. Vox Day has the right answer for such accusations: Fuck you. This is the proper response to the untestable, unquantifiable, personal assault charges from the Left: racism; misogyny, homophobic – false charges from the misandrist, race oppressor and baiter, Muslim loving at the expense of homosexuals Leftist.

It's impossible to have a rational discussion with someone who thinks that entire groups of people are that different from the rest.

And yet you immediately charge racism as an attachment to a vile group of people which is “that different from the rest”. It is a serious case of denial (and lack of travel and inquiry) to claim that groups of people are not different enough to wish other groups:: DEAD. That is a basic tenet of Islam. Muslims are required to hate Jews, and are required to kill all of them before the global caliphate can occur. In fact this past week a Palestinian family killed their own son because he was accused of being favorable to Jews.

But no, it is racist to think that they are “different”. Good Grief.

you are not able to stick to any given topic. You are all over the place… Sweden etc.

If you cannot see the connection of the feral humans in Sweden to Islam, then there is no conversation to be had. You dismiss what you either can’t refute, or just don’t comprehend.

Obviously there is no discussion of any of the most important topics of the day with you, without being put in the Marxist Class of Oppressors (racism, near white supremacist). That is intended to shut down any analytics which might be possible, and it works. Go: re-join your Leftist group, which is seriously different from the constitutionalist, lawful civilization group. Discuss with them how they are not different from anyone else.

So, Adios.

TrumpIsntQualified said...

Constitutionalist?

You explicitly said that you don't get about the constitution when it comes to immigration. You think citizenship should only be based on parents' citizenship.

Adios? Why? You can't help but post/reply to any and every kind of bullshit you ran into...