Thursday, August 11, 2011

Atheists Are Guud

Wandering around fairly aimlessly I came across the following explanation of both Atheist morals and Christian morals as understood by an Atheist. The site is BackyardSkeptics.com, which is the group responsible for advertising their We Have Doubts and Good Without God Skepticism on bus stops in Southern California. The following claims are so non-coherent that I couldn’t resist taking them up here.
“Many atheists feel it is the harder choice to not have a 'moral rule book' in their lives. Atheists take each situation separately and decide what is the moral thing to do. Many times it is very ethical to lie or cheat - for example, to defend your family, or to protect an innocent person. Some say this is a harder choice because atheists have to look at Christian's value system as will as everyone else and decide if their choices are moral. This is another reason I have chosen to be an atheist. – the Bible has so many unethical an immoral stories of death and destruction - it boggles the mind how Christians can believe such nonsense. See Numbers 31 and tell me that the taking of virgins for sex slaves is ethical. Amazing!”
Yes, that is true: Atheists do take each situation separately and decide for themselves what is the moral thing to do. That is called relativism, and it is the position that Atheists can and do change morality on the spot, because it is convenient and they are extra- moral anyway. Relativism is highly unpredictable and cannot be considered an ethic, at least not if one expects consistent decisions of an ethic.

And yes, they will decide when it is ethical to lie or cheat. Or what ever. And that is why they are not trusted by anyone else. Who knows when they are going to decide to lie or cheat or whatever their momentary urge might be? In other words, they cannot be trusted to produce a single, stable set of behaviors, even for one of them, much less an entire group of them. So this is not an ethic at all.

However, we can depend upon them to distort the Bible, because they think that works in their favor every time they do it. The example above is a beauty. If your recollection of Numbers 31 is dim or non-existent, as was mine, then grab up a Bible and read, but start at Numbers 25. I don't usually take on biblical distortions by atheists, because that doesn't disprove the existence of a creating First Cause in any way. However, this guy first distorts and then claims it as a reason for believing that there is no God, which is another non-coherence in his statement.

The Atheist accusation is that the Israelites kept virgins as sex slaves, and the self-righteous moral outrage at the Bible is based on that accusation. But the verse in question doesn’t say that at all. It says, “save for yourselves every girl that has not slept with a man.” Now why would they do that?

Back at Numbers 25, is the answer: the Midianites had seduced the Israelites into sexual perversion and idolatry, and the some of the Israelites had been morally compromised and befouled beyond recovery. There is an order to slaughter all those involved, but the Israelite army did not kill the women and boys; so the order went out to complete the task by killing the non-virgin women and the boys, but to keep the virgin females. Now why keep them? The non-virgin women were a threat because they were seductresses. The boys would figure into inheritances and were a threat to family stability. But the virgin girls were not a threat. But were they kept as sex slaves? After the killing of thousands, including seduced Israelites, sexual immorality would not have been an option. So no, not as sex slaves, it does not say that and it is not a logical conclusion. However they might have been kept as household servants and treated with the legal protections afforded those. Or they might have been kept as de facto daughters.

But there is absolutely no possible way to conclude that they were sex slaves, if one reads more than just the one verse. Atheist versions of the Bible are based on searches for verses that offend them, which is odd, because they admit to having no morals dictated by their belief. In fact, the entire Midianite episode is entirely within the Consequentialist ethic tactic that tumbles automatically out of the Atheist moral vacuum.

Bottom line: Atheists are always good, by their own definition that Atheism = good. In other words, it is tautological in their minds. They decide what is good in their own minds, so when they do it, they are good QED. Maybe in the Atheist case it should be spelled differently, maybe guud. Atheists = Guud. That’s definitely better.

Afterthought: usually Atheists take offense at the entire idea of God ordering the eradication of offensive cultures. Interesting that this particular one took offense only at the “sex slave” interpretation, which wasn’t even a valid complaint. One never knows just what it is that their morality of the day will find offensive. Or acceptable, for that matter. You just can't know what to expect from an Atheist, so as the old Boswell quote goes, "when he leaves, we should count the silverware".

8 comments:

Martin said...

Wow! This is a TERRIBLE website!

My litmus test for atheist sites is to see if they even come close to getting the theistic arguments correct. If you are going to argue against a viewpoint, you need to get that viewpoint correct.

No surprise, they fail hard at this.

Clayburn Griffin said...

I don't think you understand relativism. You can have absolute morals, but still apply them on a case by case basis. This is particularly useful when morals clash (killing an evil person, for example).

Atheists don't necessarily change morals because it's convenient. And not all atheists have the same morals or the same way of reasoning.

I would say that atheists have more predictable morals than Christians and other believers. You never know when a Muslim might decide to kill someone because they're morally obligated to by their religion. There is too much conflict over what is obviously moral to most people (not harming others, for instance) and religious laws that dictate engaging in immoral behaviors (killing infedels, stoning gays, treating women as subordinates).

Atheists generally have very predictable morals by comparison. They'll always not blow up buildings because god will never tell them to. You can count on them to be fairly self-interested, but respect the rights of others. They don't act out of irrational thoughts as often as a religious person might.

You have a terrible understanding of atheism. If you'd like to learn more and educate your readers, I would be willing to do an interview for your blog and answer whatever questions you might have.

J Curtis said...

True Free Thinker already demolished this nonsense.

http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/atheism-bible-rape-and-evilbiblecom-part-5-6

Anonymous said...

We are looking at this with our modern eyes and our modern morals. Let us examine what Jewish teachers closer to the event wrote. We can examine everything from Talmud of Babylonia to , Tractate Baba Qamma.

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him."
[This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable for intercourse, even when she has not slept with a man...
But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. From here R. Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a Proselyte girl who became a proselyte in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood."

"....According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, MOSES therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations." ...."

"Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse....."

"A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."....."

Stan said...

C.Griffin said,

"I would say that atheists have more predictable morals than Christians and other believers."
Given that Atheism provides no moral guidance whatsoever, this is logically impossible, unless they have all gotten together and co-opted a single set of morals, or have come to a decision on the Grand Moral Set of Atheism. This has not happened; Atheist philosophers love to hack away at other Atheist philosophers.

Unless Humanism (which one? the next one? the first one?) is the Grand Moral Set of Atheism, then there is no moral set of Atheism.

So, being without a moral set that is agreed upon by all Atheists, the idea of consistency in Atheist moral values is without merit.

And,
"Atheists generally have very predictable morals by comparison. They'll always not blow up buildings because god will never tell them to."

This has to be the most out-of-touch-with-history statement ever made.

And,
"You have a terrible understanding of atheism. If you'd like to learn more and educate your readers, I would be willing to do an interview for your blog and answer whatever questions you might have."

Your personal hubris might lead you to start your own blog on the "virtue of Atheists". I'll critique it for you when you get it up and running.

Stan said...

Anonymous (please choose a moniker so we know who we are addressing):

I couldn't turn up a searchable Talmud of Babylonia, but the Tract of Baba Qamma has nothing about marrying three year old girls because they are ready for intercourse.

From my perspective, the concept is ludicrous on the face of it. Maybe it is from "Rabbis Gone Wild"?

FrankNorman said...

Funny how one moment a poster is claiming that Atheists are all different, and don't follow one single system - but then later on in that same post, he's ticking off Stan for not properly understanding Atheism - as if it were a single system!

CS Lewis put it well. Such people change their ground constantly, and will only waste your time.

Nats said...

There's no "system". All you have to know is atheists don't believe in gods. Stan is the one building the ever-shifting system.