A Last Exchange With The Vaccine Troll

My response to the vaccine troll is too long for the comment blocks, and so I publish it here as a post. The conversation has been degenerate from the get-go, with charges against me of being a murderous, immoral, and heinous person who enjoys body counts, all with foul language dripping with moral outrage and self-righteousness, of course. This will be the final post on the subject from my end, although I’m fairly certain that the Vaccine Troll will respond with furious yet moralistic invectives as is his character.

I will start with a direct quote from the Troll:

"What you are effectively advocating is a death sentence for promiscuous behavior. ("About eight in every ten women who have been sexually active will have H.P.V. at some stage of their life. ") This seems reasonable, from your perch of absolute morality? 8/10 women? Fuck them right. Sluts. No pun intended."

The troll denies having said this:

” This is beyond idiotic. I said 8/10 women get HPV. You say that is a risk they chose to take for non-monogamous life style. Ie 8/10 women: fuck them right?

My very first sentence in this thread is a quote of how many actual deaths are due to cervical cancer.”

”So you are once again lying.

By quoting you directly, I am lying? "Death sentence for promiscuity?" OK, I see your mental process: deny that you said what you said. However, your words are recorded and stand.

Since you are (all) just one single foul-mouthed, non-scientist troll using many names, I will address you one last time as a single individual.

First. I admitted that the article in question had at least two errors, possibly more. However, the idea that Dr Harper has no concerns about the vaccine issue is FALSE, as will be shown below, using your very own references which you only prejudicially, selectively quoted, just as you did your own comment above.

Second. I admitted that monogamy is a dead issue in this Brave New Leftist pagan culture - IF the culture is embraced by those youth who are assaulted by it. Yet monogamy (and abstinence) still are quoted by the CDC as the only – ONLY – way to avoid the HPV STD. Your dismissive position that such avoidance of STDs is impossible is addressed below.

Third. Your statement:

"Regardless of your pipe dream of cultural monogamy, the evidence points out that comprehensive sex ed is better at reducing teen pregnancy and STDs than abstinence-only ed."

Show your evidence that abstinence does not exist, and that STDs and pregnancy are not avoided by abstinence. Clue, your own references refute that, as shown below.

Abstinence is either a value of the family and the local culture, or it is not. In a culture of rampant sexual adventurism pimped constantly on all media (and apparently approved by yourself as evidenced by your contempt at the suggestion of cultural responsibility), considerable sexual adventurism will be the result. But not total. The pagan Left has won that war on traditional values of personal responsibility, at least in the streaming culture. The country will not return to personal responsibility as a national cultural character value for a very long time, if ever. However, personal responsibility does still exist as a hated sub-culture… hated as has been demonstrated here, with heated contemptuous invective against the mere suggestion of such heresy.

You are partially correct, however. The concept of personal responsibility has been destroyed as an overall cultural value by the amoral Left, so abstinence “training” will have no effect on those particular youth who do not recognize any responsibility for their risky behaviors. This is especially egregious in the millennial generation, many of which can hardly be induced to work for a living, and most of which enters college too ignorant to begin freshman work. The three-generational maleducation is complete, yet it has not influenced those from certain backgrounds.

Fourth, your reference to the same Wiki page which I referenced points to a flaw in that page: At one point Dr Harper is quoted (with references) taking one position; at another point she is quoted (with a single reference) as taking a different position. So which is it? You choose to believe the one which agrees with your worldview, meaning that you eschew any skepticism for the contradiction. I choose just enough skepticism to wonder what the truth actually is.

Fifth, your comment,

” That is false. It is false for serial monogamists."

Except you just conceded that HPV cannot be avoided via monogamy. And the CDC has multiple quotes backing me here. Listed above.”

This ignores the CDC statement which I quoted saying that abstinence and monogamy are the only way to avoid this STD. You are prejudicing the issue with your position that no one can avoid multiple sexual contacts, and contact from outside monogamy, which is just not true. Your presumption of the inevitability of total sexual promiscuity is both false, as will be shown, and its presumption indicates either defeatism or approval. It’s not possible to tell which with precision, but your attitude seems to favor the latter.

This in turn voids your next comment:

” I'm not for forcing anyone to take anything. I am for accurate information. So you can just exit that entire angle of attack.”

You apparently wish to prejudice the information in favor of your worldview, which seems to be that sexual adventurism is fine, needs not be discouraged in young people, ostensibly because… well just because that’s your opinion. That is not a pursuit of “accurate information”, which would necessarily include the CDC position on total safety through abstinence and monogamy, which you heatedly reject with ideological rationalization; your overall concept is to salvage the irresponsible from the consequences and overtly not to address their irresponsibility, which in itself is irresponsible although it is cloaked in the faux morality of messiahism.

In terms of “accurate information”: You have failed to address the issue of recalled vaccines and the acceptance of risk in taking any vaccine. That is definitely not the pursuit of “accurate information”, it is neglect while making a pompous claim.

Here is a direct quote from your referenced article:

” Because the vaccines prevent rather than treat HPV, they should be administered prior to contraction to be fully effective. This means vaccination must ideally occur before people engage in sexual activity. A 2011 survey conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that nearly half of all American high school students reported having engaged in sexual intercourse. Yet, Dr. Darden’s study shows that parents cite sexual inactivity as one of the major reasons for declining the vaccine for their children.”

So more than half of American high school students are abstinent? That is in the data. Yet the article seems to chide parents for declining the vaccine on the basis of sexual inactivity. And it certainly refutes your position that abstinence is impossible.

And here is Dr Harper:

”This dichotomy leads Diane Harper, MD, MPH, MS, Professor of Medicine at the University of Missouri School of Medicine, who participated in early trials of the vaccines at the behest of their makers, GlaxoSmithKline and Merck & Co., to suggest that vaccination be based upon individual risk factors because studies have not shown how long the vaccines protect against HPV.

Dr. Harper sees merit in waiting until patients themselves determine the appropriateness of vaccination.”

That is exactly my position. EXACTLY.

In addition, she claims that protection duration is NOT KNOWN. This of course means that the claim of 100% effective is a false claim, if she is right.

Dr Harper again:

” “I provide a balanced picture to my patients and their families and am not at all upset if they refuse the vaccine, especially at younger ages,” Dr. Harper says. “I think it may be more appropriate for some people to decide they want to be vaccinated at age 16, 18 or 20 — whichever age makes the most sense for them to have protection from infection.”

This does not preclude the decision NOT to be vaccinated, based on two of the abstinent individuals becoming monogamous, regardless of your incorrect but vehement attacks on monogamy and personal responsibility.

Those are the issues; so go ahead and accuse Dr Harper of enjoying the body count; of being murderous; of all the heinous charges you have made here in your hysterical – shouting – domineering – intolerant rants. Her position is the same is mine, so your foul language must apply to her as well.

Now for Dr Darden:

” On the other hand, Dr. Darden notes that sexual activity doesn’t always happen as planned, and because of prevalent teenage sexual activity, Dr. Darden encourages vaccination before children enter high school.

“If you vaccinate after the patient is infected, the vaccine won’t help at all,” Dr. Darden notes. “The vaccine may not provide the protection we hope for, but it’s better than nothing — it’s the same reason why we give tetanus shots. I understand concerns that the vaccine doesn’t provide lifelong protection, but I don’t understand using that as an excuse not to vaccinate.”

The vaccine is ineffective for much of the population, which is already HPV positive. The risk, as Darden points out, is attributable directly to sexual adventurism amongst teens.

Deny that. Please show that Dr Darden is lying.

And Dr Harper again:

” Dr. Harper questions the appropriateness of routine early vaccination and pushes for an individualized approach to vaccine administration.

‘The argument that someone should get the vaccine at age 11 because by the time they’re 18, they’ll have a 50 percent chance of having had sex and the vaccine won’t work, is true at face value,” Dr. Harper says. “But it may very well be that the age at which a person decides to get vaccinated is very personally determined. It’s much more appropriate to decide what the risk is as a family or as a person.’”
[Emphasis Added]

She essentially denies your right to assess the risk for her patients. And she denies the appropriateness of bullying the vaccine into people as a routine demand.

Here is the conclusion, featuring both Dr. Darden and Dr. Harper:

” In the Pediatrics study, which was published in March 2013, Dr. Darden shows that between 2008 and 2010, a little more than half of surveyed physicians recommended HPV vaccination to their teenage female patients. Dr. Darden explains that physicians have a duty to provide clearly stated recommendations to their patients.

“Sometimes, as physicians, we feel we’ve stated our recommendations, but to the other party, they remain unstated,” Dr. Darden says. “This can increase their uncertainty. Parents or patients can still refuse the vaccination, but the reason they’re coming to you is for your expert opinion, and I don’t think it’s fair to them not to give it.”

Dr. Harper agrees that, while physicians should clearly state their recommendations, they should not conform to messages sent by the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.
“The message physicians have received ... is that you have to push the vaccine,” Dr. Harper says. “That’s absolutely the wrong way to present these vaccinations. What physicians need to be saying is that the vaccine is available, and it’s useful.”
[emphasis added].

Darden thinks there is only one possible opinion, his personal expert opinion, and that it should be the only one given to patients. Harper clearly thinks otherwise, and says so very clearly, with reasons.

Your hysterical desperation in pimping this vaccine is unwarranted, if you believe Dr Harper; your hysterical desperation in pimping this vaccine is warranted if you believe Dr Darden.

I choose the principle of Choice; Women’s Right to Choose; Freedom From Coercion and Bullying. Despite your claims to the contrary, your breathless condemnation of any deviant opinion as ‘enjoying body counts”, “murder” etc indicates that such forcing is warranted, just because you say so. In other words, the bullying of this vaccine into the bodies of children is what you are engaged in.

Don’t care for that analysis? Then explain your comment below, which I print again for entertainment and edification:

You said:

"What you are effectively advocating is a death sentence for promiscuous behavior. ("About eight in every ten women who have been sexually active will have H.P.V. at some stage of their life. ") This seems reasonable, from your perch of absolute morality? 8/10 women? Fuck them right. Sluts. No pun intended."

This is bullying and it is bullying with blatant lying. You have denied that. The denial is just another lie.

So that pretty much wraps this up, right?