In response, Scott, over at monkeytrials, posted a lengthy rebuttal in which he made several points, which I will try to capture here in condensed form. I imagine Scott will help correct me if my impressions are incorrect.
1. The first and abiding point concerns plumbers showing up to critique Darwin and non-chefs critiquing chefs. Scott has denied that this is an appeal to authority, yet insists that authority trumps “outsiders”, who are butting in and are out of their league. (also related is #6 below).
2. Stephen J. Gould is invoked in an excerpt that makes his case that evolutionary science is different and therefore is allowed to use different standards. The bulk of the Gould complaint compares evo-science to law. But Scott also uses a hoops/pigskin reference as an “apples and oranges” argument. Evidence, the argument seems to be, is relative.
3. Next he compares evo-science inferences to Einstein’s inferences as a means of justifying their use.
4. Then the existing record of empirical evo-confirmations is cited.
5. Scott repeats that an hypothesis cannot be argued against unless a competing, superior hypothesis is first presented.
6. Finally he categorizes me in a fashion that appears calculated to imply that I lack credentials satisfactory to the task, in his opinion.
Let’s discuss what is happening here.
1. There is no possible way to use the metaphors of plumber vs. Darwin and diner vs.chef and not be referring to lack of authority or a requirement of authority. This is a common syndrome within paleo- whatever: If you criticize, you show your ignorance: so begone, ignorant one. In fact I was not challenging the factoids produced by archaeology; dinosaurs of all stripes existed as did huge sloths, mastadons, etc. What I was challenging – and still challenge – is the rationalization that accompanies these factoids. So the challenge is about process: the logic and rational relationships that are being used to declare TRUTH. Does it take four PhD’s in paleo-whatever to examine logic? In fact, how many biologists even study logic?In fact other sciences do use inference, and use it successfully and rationally. The process is to take data, draw an inference, form a hypothesis, design an experiment, limit the variables, take data, objectively analyze for conformance to the hypothesis, list deviations, draw another inference, repeat the above until deviations are under the instrumentation noise threshold. If this process converges, it will produce a factoid, which remains contingent, and therefore never becomes absolute Truth. There is no stopping at the pointin the process where the inference is made.
The process of determining actual Truth is not restricted to biologists and is not dependent upon one’s knowledge of paleo-factoids. Logic is a separate and universal set of truths and can be an acquired skill set if it is studied and applied rigorously and with intellectual honesty. Logic is not dependent upon any information set derived by any scientific pursuit; conversely, science is dependent upon logic. Illogically obtained, science data has no value.
So there are two fallacies at play, here. First the obvious Appeal to Authority Fallacy, second a weak Red Herring Fallacy where a demand is made that is not even pertinent to the issue: being an expert in X is not essential when observing logical processes common to all rational pursuits. But being logical is essential to being an expert in X, if X is a rational pursuit.
2. Gould is making a plea that is a Special Pleading Fallacy: X is somehow “special” and this makes it OK to exempt X from the constraints placed on the rest of the alphabet.
3. Here is my favorite. Einstein did in fact infer certain things mathematically. He did not however declare them fact until empirical confirmation was accomplished. He never declared them to be Truth. This is just a false use of an authority.
4. As I have done many times, I again asked to be made acquainted with which of Scott’s list of evo-things are actual, incontrovertible, empirical proof of evolution. This request has never been answered. I again request just one (1) instance of this. Providing a lengthy list of inferential presumptions does not make the case that evolution is as robust as other sciences. Part of the problem here is that evolution is not even completely defined, as redefinitions are to be forthcoming in this, the year of Darwin. The hypothesis remains malleable.
5. To claim that fallacies cannot be cited when identified unless a Truth is provided as well…. is false. A fallacy is a fallacy, and is false, period.
6. I might have hoped for a better classification than “armchair philosopher”, but I can see that it served Scott’s purposes. Biologists seem to have an almost accountant-like drive to classify and categorize things; but I had hoped for something more along the lines of “Templar of Logic”. Oh, well. At any rate it is an Ad Hominem Fallacy, and as I said above it appears designed to imply a lack of acceptable credentials on my part, so it was applied in the name of the Appeal to Authority Fallacy. But again, I was not critiquing the details of the science, I was being critical of the conclusions of fact and truth being drawn, and there’s your apples vs. oranges.
The only pursuit of which I am aware that uses “mountains” of inferences to generate “facts” and “Truth” is evolution. I maintain that this is an error, no matter how compelling the mountain of inferences might be. It might be asymptotic to factuality due to sheer bulk, weight of numbers, and might even be used as fact, but it is not fact. It remains hypothesis until it is verified empirically (a la’ Einstein, if you will, to reverse the Appeal to Authority). And it is never absolute truth.
The reason that I object strenuously to the perpetuation of such fallacies is not for either the benefit or detriment of evolution. The reason is that the persistent, erroneous use of the words “fact” and ”Truth” on the behalf of evolution are a part of the culture war we find ourselves in now. The war to instill relativism benefits from these fallacies and will ultimately result in complete relativism and denial of standards. This removes rational thought from the process, and results in intellectual and ethical chaos. This skid has started, and is nearly out of control. That’s why I object.
This brings me to the final point: “scientists need not be either aware or concerned about culture wars or social aspects of their work” (a point that Scott forgot to make this time around). This is valid; but only if they are scrupulous about their claims in the first place. Intellectual integrity demands it.
6 comments:
New reader to the site, and I like it's premise, although I am still an atheist and likely to remain so.
Re: part of your response to Scott (I haven't read his article).
'As I have done many times, I again asked to be made acquainted with which of Scott’s list of evo-things are actual, incontrovertible, empirical proof of evolution.'
Empirical evidence, sure, there's lots of it for evolution. But 'empirical proof'? I don't think so. Logical proof may exist in mathematics, limited by clearly defined axioms. However, I don't think it is possible for science to be conducted in such a way. Instead, science is iterative in nature with it's 'logic' being Bayesian in character, where the weight that an individual attaches to the trustworthiness of a particular idea or finding is dependent upon how it fits with other related points. In my opinion, the evidence for evolution is very strong, taken as a whole body.
Also, I don't think it's necessary in general to have a ready replacement for a hypothesis that one considers wrong. It's possible that the faulty hypothesis sufficently lacks explanatory powers that it is little or no better than having no hypothesis. Needless to say, I don't think that's the case with natural selection.
Cookie, Welcome!
You are absolutely correct, I should not have used the term "proof", it is too general and not at all what I intended.
Scott and other evolution enthusiasts tend to use the terms "fact" and "truth" when extolling the virtues of evolution.
I should have pointed out more clearly that science always produces contingent "factoids" that are fragile and subject to change under subsequent investigation. If facts are incontrovertable, and truth is absolute, then science never produces a "fact", nor does it produce "truth".
Moreover, the empirical factoids that exist for evolution are individual instantiations of creatures that existed; the rest is extrapolation of evo-imaginations: inference of relationships. These are assumed, not proven. When pushed on this issue, evo-enthusiasts tend to claim that mountains of inference and immunity from the rigor of other science endeavors renders evolution so robust as to be called "fact" and "truth".
This is the thrust of my argument: evolution has not demonstrated a single empirical verification that I can find: I continually request to be pointed to one if it does exist.
It is not intellectually honest to call evolution "fact" or "truth"; it should be called an hypothesis, because that is what it is.
Logically (if not biologically) selection alone does not have the explanatory strength to induce a belief in evolution (except micro-evolution). What is required is selection in the presence of a marked, positive change (ie. mutation) in the genome, which may then be selected for better environmental fit.
Taken together (mutation and selection), these present an overwhelming improbability (Whether Bayesian or elsewise) that causes some evo-enthusiasts to deny the "mutation" component. So every bit of the story of evolution is both unconfirmed and arguable, even after 150 years.
Later this year, the year of Darwin, the evolution hypothesis will be re-defined, and new variables introduced (epi-genetic, etc.). As I have said, the only thing that is consistent is the statement that evolution is true; nothing else stays the same.
Thanks for your comments and correction...
Stan
Hi Stan
I am making the assumption that primarily you are questioning the sufficiency of Darwinian natural selection in accounting for the observed variety of species in the world.
You wrote:
'Logically (if not biologically) selection alone does not have the explanatory strength to induce a belief in evolution (except micro-evolution). What is required is selection in the presence of a marked, positive change (ie. mutation) in the genome, which may then be selected for better environmental fit.'
One of my previous points was that 'selection' *does* have the explanatory strength to induce a probabilistic acceptance (for me at least) that it accounts for observations. I cannot say that it accounts for everything, but I am not aware of a phenomena within its remit that is better accounted for by an alternative hypothesis (and no, I am not suggesting that you must be the one to propose the alternative hypothesis :) ).
I suspect that I may be missing a great deal of what you are trying to get at. My own field is in Chemistry, not Biology, and I think I am less likely to be able to make a better job of providing you with some kind of knock-out blow to force your acceptance of natural selection than many of the sources that you have already read.
As an aside, I couldn't agree more that it is incorrect to refer to as fact natural selection accounting for evolution. Of course, it isn't. It is, again in my opinion, the best available hypotheses. I am sure that if superior alternative hypotheses exist then they will gain ground over time and supplant or at least modify the existing accepted explanation.
Cookie,
Here is my point, hopefully better stated this time: If the genome contains all the features that can ever be selected, and so needs only selection to produce those features, then the original genome must have contained all the features for all creatures, plant and animal. (Assuming that all life proceeded from a single unit, as evolution maintains). That argument requires a single, all encompassing original genome, unchanging, but highly selectable.
Now if the original genome was that complete, how did that amount of organization occur in that very first life? Chances against that are beyond astronomical. So the more parsimonious intuition would be external intelligent involvement, which is categorically denied by evolutionists. Or it was not that complete.
So if the original genome was NOT that complete, then where did the genes come from that produced fingers, spines, livers, warm-bloodedness, sexual reproduction etc. If those genes did not originally exist, but do exist now, then there must have been a change in the genome being passed on. A change into something new is a mutation.
This is the position taken in all the current literature that I have been able to find: selection based on mutations. Denials of this are rampant on the web, but not in the literature.
Mutations are problematic for evolution apologists. Mutations are typically fatal or at least detrimental and negatively affect reproducibility. So maybe there are benign mutations that stick around until several mutations add together to make new, beneficial features.
But generally benign mutations die out of the population fairly rapidly. And the probability of stacking benign mutations together into beneficial features is so low as to be negligible, even compared to what the evolutionists call "deep time".
The new features above and beyond primordial single cell creatures are so numerous as to invoke incredulousness at the proposition, at least until it is properly shown to work: new features developing handily out of a genome that doesn't contain genes for them. (Especially without mutation).
Don't know if this helps explain or not, if not, I'll try again.
Hi Stan
As previously stated, I am no expert on Biology (I have given a University course on natural biopolymers, but really only from a Chemistry perspective) and have no formal education in Biology to speak of (I don't think my reading of Dawkins' work counts :) )
You wrote: 'If the genome contains all the features that can ever be selected, and so needs only selection to produce those features, then the original genome must have contained all the features for all creatures, plant and animal.'
I am not sure I can agree with your logic.
Here's my understanding, FWIW. The unit of selection is 'the gene'. Genes are just a section of a DNA strand on a chromosome, with a number of chromosomes making up the entire genome. I (and I assume you also) have no problem with accepting this system as the starting point for explaining the currently observed variety of species and every detail of each of those species. If I understand you rightly, then you think that the 'original genome' must also have had the same features i.e the same bases etc. I don't see why you would think that *must* be the case?
Quite probably I have misunderstood.
BTW
Just clicked on your 'First Principles' list. Very good - clear and succinct. I shall be passing them onto a friend of mine who is both a Christian and a philosopher.
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