Recently the minor Atheists roaming the internet have taken to increasing the power to their shields by morphing several new definitions of Atheism. This has been necessary due to the pressure placed upon them to provide evidence and logic to support their worldview and belief system. So the Atheist response has been increasingly in the direction of denying that they have anything which requires evidence and logic, and therefore they have no need to provide it. This is accomplished via the Atheist sliding and slippery definition tactic.
Atheism has always been knowledge-negative in the sense that it does not produce any knowledge; it merely denies that there can be any knowledge outside of a certain category or type which is favored by the Atheist and Philosophical Materialist. So it is knowledge-eliminativist or knowledge-negative.
Being knowledge-negative is the primary characteristic of the practice of Skepticism as well, and Atheism is a subset of Skepticism. Skepticism aspires to sitting alongside the stream of knowledge and taking pot shots at knowledge bits and pieces which come along the stream, knowledge quanta which the Skeptic doesn’t care for. But the Skeptic is careful not to actually engage the knowledge stream because that would involve intellectual activities for which he is ill prepared. So Skepticism is merely the assertion that “you cannot know that”, with the reason being, “with any certainty”. Taken to the Skeptical limit, nothing can be known with any certainty (we cannot prove with certainty that we are not all merely simulations in a huge computer program somewhere, and everything in our “reality” is a delusion, so that in fact, nothing exists, even ourselves). Thus, under escalating Skepticism any and all knowledge is deniable, depending upon the value assigned to “certainty”. The Skeptic just sits and chooses which knowledge he likes and which he wants to destroy. This is Asymmetrical Skepticism.
Nietzsche (the last and only honest Atheist) drove this point home: there are no self-evident, axiomatic truths because they cannot be proved. Ever the intellectual avant garde, he drove the point to its obvious necessary conclusion: rational discourse cannot exist. So he developed his philosophy of Anti-Rationalism, which turned out to be indiscernible from insanity.
The new Atheist drive toward denialism is merely an internally dishonest version of Nietzsche’s more honest admission. The attempt to rescue themselves from any burden to explain their beliefs has morphed from “there is no god”, to “we have no god theory”, to “we have no god beliefs”, to “we have no beliefs in god/s”, to “we have no beliefs”, depending of course on the particular Atheist involved, and whatever stage of the argument he needs to protect himself from.
The intent appears to be to become absolutely knowledge-neutral, having no intellectual position betrayed or exposed to the necessity of defending it using actual evidence or logic. Since achieving knowledge-neutrality is rather like balancing a bowling ball on the point of a needle, it fails rather badly under disciplined logical applications of entropy. And this is where the massive Atheist intellectual dishonesty results in massive absurdity.
Under the new definitions of Atheism, we are expected to accept, with no complaints involving their logical errors, that Atheists (a) have no beliefs which need justification, (b) yet are morally, logically, and intellectually superior, and (c) have a worldview which is based on evidence and logic.
This viewpoint is achieved through the tactic of Asymmetrical Skepticism, which allows the Atheist to refuse all undesired knowledge, regardless of its logic or even its material evidence, using the “certainty” requirement. For his own position however, the Skepticism evaporates and becomes an obtuse soup of credulous acceptance of ideas which are self-evidently absurd and totally without evidence or logic in their support. This is not a problem for the Atheist. The self-evident axioms are different for Atheists, who have developed their own set of "truths" in the vacuum left by the death of absolute First Principles. They presuppose that their innate and tautological personal correctness makes their every thought logical with no need for the standards of disciplined logic. The design of morality locally and under their own moral authority allows them to be completely moral at all times and in all situations, no matter what they do. They can and will decide what sort of evidence each party in a discussion is required to present (HINT: it’s not themselves). They can and will decide where “reality” stops, and it is not a rational conclusion, it is an ideological, Philosophical Materialist decision which requires no evidence to back it up.
And they are never, ever, skeptical of their own mental processes or conclusions.
Having adopted the Nietzschean Asymmetrical Skepticism, these Atheists have inadvertently (or maybe not) engaged reality from the Anti-Rational standpoint. And because Anti-Rationalism, when applied to logical assertions, is indiscernible from insanity, discussions with the anti-rational becomes rife with logical failures, failures which the anti-rational don’t care one whit about, because they don't apply under Anti-Rationalism. Logic and Anti-rationalism are like matter and anti-matter in that they cannot coexist non-destructively.
This is where honesty comes into play. Honesty has to be measured against a standard. The standard for honesty is consistency in a person’s behavior as measured against the person’s stated worldview standards. It presumes that a person has a set of First Principles which are consistent with reality, meaning that they are not internally contradictory, or otherwise illogical or irrational.
With Anti-Rationalists, there is no admitted position, certainly no consistent position, against which to measure the Anti-Rationalist’s behavior – except to observe, yes, that behavior is not rational, so it fits the Anti-Rationalist worldview.
But under traditional Rationalist understandings of honesty, irrational behavior in the pursuit of worldviews which are merely convenient is not honest; it is contrived out of logical fallacies which the protagonist cannot and will not defend. Persistent irrationality equates to intellectual dishonesty, when viewed under Rationalism.
Dishonesty also is apparent when there is a disparate application of rules, insisting on impossible rules for the opposition while allowing no rules for oneself. Requiring material proof for the existence of a non-material entity (the infamous Atheist Category Error) on the one hand, while accepting no requirements for providing evidence or logic for the Atheist position (by using the Orwellian tactic of changing the definition of the position as required to attempt to avoid responsibility) are blatant intellectual dishonesties and rational failures, at least when viewed under Rationalist principles. Under Anti-Rationalism, they must seem just fine.
Under Nietzsche’s Asymmetrical Skepticism, it was deemed rational to eliminate the foundations of rational thought and thus become an Anti-Rationalist. The obvious internal contradiction was acceptable, because there no longer existed any Principle of Non-Contradiction; that principle was lost to Asymmetrical Skepticism. Coherence was/is no longer a requirement for proper thinking, and is used only when convenient. Otherwise, Anti-Coherence prevails in Anti-Rationalism. In fact Anti-Coherence is a proper tactic in the ascent of those engaged in the Will To Power; Nietzsche’s disciple, Saul Alinsky, attested to that, half a century after Nietzsche’s death, a death only after a final decade of insanity and irrationality. Again, it turns out that Anti-Rationality when taken seriously is indiscernible from insanity.
And that is the intellectual state of the casual internet Atheist. He is caught declaring that his Anti-Rational assertions are, in fact, rational, and further he has no burden to show any logic or evidence in their support, nor need he admit to the internal contradiction as a failure. If the Anti-Rational Atheist actually believes that, then he behaving according to his worldview, and is irrational by definition. If he doesn’t believe that, then he is maximally dishonest and is using it as an excuse, an intellectual dodge. Either way, his arguments are failures when judged under Rationalist principles of disciplined logical analysis. Further, the Atheist’s objection – just more denialism, actually - to that failure is inconsequential, being only an artifact of his Anti-Rational affliction. In fact, the Atheist’s objection is absurd, a concept that is only meaningful under Rationalism.
The Atheist claim to be based on logic and evidence is false, and demonstrably so. Under the new Anti-Rationalist push to deny the need to even argue their position, they tacitly admit to the falsity of that position. They have, in essence, defaulted the high ground of rationality, logic and evidence to the Rationalists, who are not Atheists.
A former 40 year Atheist analyzes Atheism, without resorting to theism, deism, or fantasy.
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If You Don't Value Truth, Then What DO You Value?
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If we say that the sane can be coaxed and persuaded to rationality, and we say that rationality presupposes logic, then what can we say of those who actively reject logic?
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Atheists have an obligation to give reasons in the form of logic and evidence for rejecting Theist theories.
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9 comments:
So its like a game of Calvinball, with a side order of Humpty-Dumptyism?
Put another way, the Atheist (or "Voidist") is just saying "I'll believe whatever I feel like, nobody gets to tell me what I must or mustn't accept as true!"
^THIS
did you ever discuss with atheists in person? you seem to imply that the only people you are attacking are clowns like me who laugh at your face for your incapacity to address critiques of your arguments?
regarding knowledge by the way, it's easy to flip this around and say that you are the one in the knowledge denial position.... why?
by presenting a god hypothesis that cannot be detected in any material way, you essentially put a limit to the material knowledge we can acquire. at the same time, the extra non-material knowledge you claim to create is not rejected by atheists because it's extra knowledge, it is rejected because you don't justify it. you just assert assert assert. we know the material universe was not the way it is in the past, hence it was a non-material thing. thats what you do. nothing more. it's laughable!
you are the onw who whats to destroy knowledge, forgetting that all who pretended to have proof, like you, were wrong!! you are the extreme skeptics who reject the science of evolution. you are the extrem skeptic who reject REALITY as a rational basis to hold. you are the freak who puts his thoughts on top of the real world to support his logical deduction that this REALITY must come from a non-real god that explains everything. it's intellectual masturbation. you only satisfy your own ego and need for answers where the honest answer is that we should keep looking, and keep the non-material explanations as tentative, with some being more probable than others.
oh but wait, i am a stupid atheist, i reject all non-material knowledge right?
that's why i say u attack strawman... what a joke :D
eternal:
”by presenting a god hypothesis that cannot be detected in any material way, you essentially put a limit to the material knowledge we can acquire.”
FALSE. Absolutely false. Karl Popper’s falsification demarcation principle places the limitation on material knowledge accessible to science. Not me. And your assertion makes no sense, anyway. You are free to understand all of material existence which is testable using the technology available to you. That is the second limit to material knowledge – technological limitations. Not me. Third, Material knowledge is regarding Material things. That is the third limitation, a limitation by Set Theory. Not me.
You do not understand science, its capabilities and limitations. If you think it has no limitations, then you are operating under a false illusion.
If you feel limited by your Philosophical Materialism, it is because Philosophical Materialism is your limitation. Not me. Under Philosophical Materialism you have self-restricted to material existence for no logical reason, only for ideological reasons. Philosophical Materialism cannot prove its own premise, which is that only Material objects exist; it fails its own premise. It is false.
” at the same time, the extra non-material knowledge you claim to create is not rejected by atheists because it's extra knowledge, it is rejected because you don't justify it.”
FALSE. Atheists have no position; you said so. Now, you claim something different, don’t you? Slippery much? You are using "justify" in its "Material Proof" sense, of course, (the standard Atheist Category Error). I know this because the justification of rational acceptability has been made, and has not been refuted either by you or anyone else. It has been called names as you have done, but not refuted. It has been denied, as others have done, but not refuted. It has been laughed at as you have done, but not refuted.
Not refuted. Because Atheists cannot produce either logic or material evidence which refutes it, and which provides even the most simple defense for their own, flawed, ideology.
The Atheist dash into the closet to hide from their intellectual responsibility is accompanied by no refutation, only whining about “no evidence” or no “justification” or “you didn’t prove anything”… but never, never, ever a refutation.
Never a refutation; only whines, guffaws, snorts of derision, and denials. Never one whit of logic applied as a refutation.
Atheists are denialists hiding under the skirt of Asymmetrical Skepticism, peeping out to take their pot shots. Never producing a case of their own, and fleeing frantically from the charge to do so.
” you just assert assert assert.”
Every hypothesis is an assertion, as is every deduction. Your issue is irrelevant, in the form of a whine.
” we know the material universe was not the way it is in the past, hence it was a non-material thing. thats what you do. nothing more. it's laughable!”
FALSE, demonstrably. You either have not read the proposition, or you completely fail to comprehend it, and are laughing while looking quite silly. You have been quite silly since you showed up here. It's your personal signature style.
(more below)
” you are the onw who whats to destroy knowledge, forgetting that all who pretended to have proof, like you, were wrong!!”
FALSE. I don’t deny any Materialist knowledge gained through disciplined empirical procedures, I admire it and consider it useful but contingent. As for pretending to have proof, you are no longer making sense. I don’t pretend to have Material evidence, and the Lourdes experiment is your chance to prove that the claims are false, but guess what: you didn’t, won’t and can’t. Your Materialism fails you at the get go, doesn’t it?
”you are the extreme skeptics who reject the science of evolution.”
FALSE. What I demand is that evolution be submitted to the same scrutiny that is required of real science before it is declared Truth. If that bothers you, it’s just another symptom of your Asymmetrical Skepticism affliction, and your ideological need to grasp at straws regardless of their evidentiary standing. Evolution is based on hypothesis, deduction and conjectural extrapolation regarding a material issue. You accept this but you reject the same technique presented above, where the technique is more applicable than to materialist issues which should be empirically proven.
” you are the freak who puts his thoughts on top of the real world to support his logical deduction that this REALITY must come from a non-real god that explains everything. it's intellectual masturbation.”
Here we have the epitome of your logical abilities and the quality of refutation which those logical abilities produces: Name Calling (Fallacy Ad Hominem). An actual refutation would involve producing either logic or Material evidence which supports your case, which now apparently is that I am a masturbating freak.
” you only satisfy your own ego and need for answers where the honest answer is that we should keep looking, and keep the non-material explanations as tentative, with some being more probable than others.”
And now I am a dishonest, masturbating freak. Suddenly your answer, ignorance, is the refutation? You have defeated it with your ignorance? While that is a revealing stance, it has no explanatory power, as Atheists are wont to declare, and it says precisely nothing as a refutation of the case which was presented. It is in fact, a moral statement, declaring what SHOULD be the answer, in your opinion, and under your ideology. But you have no moral authority to declare what SHOULD be, and there is no reason for anyone else to accept that moral declaration.
” that's why i say u attack strawman... what a joke :D”
Yes, that’s perfectly in keeping with the rest of your thought process here. It was completely expected that you would charge Straw Man without comprehending what a Straw Man actually consists of.
” you are the freak who puts his thoughts on top of the real world to support his logical deduction that this REALITY must come from a non-real god that explains everything.”
Whoah. A "non-real god"? But...but...I thought atheism was only a lack of belief in the existence of God. Yet here we have the presence of a belief in the nonexistence of God. Can't these atheists keep their story straight?
ahhhhhh, more to reply to here... sorry i don't have the time for much anymore.......
you are right that i was not clear regarding proof here! good job stan!
you are also correct; i will not attempt to prove that lourdes is false. the only thing i can tell you is that according to me personnal standard of evidence (yes we all have a personal standard, ok? don't deny that) i am unconvinced by the claims. i need more info; all you got is a story.
regarding evolution, what you demand is what's done already. there is no exception for biology. you are making one... i would be interested in discussing that actually, if you can stop being enraged about it ;-)
regarding the insult of MENTAL masturbating, not the word in front, it's very important, nothing sexual here ;-)
so the point is that yes, you are using your blog as some sort of way to constantly re-use the same arguments over and over, proving people wrong, and then pushing them out of your way, claiming victory over their insignificant point of view. if i were a theist who agrees with you, i would still find you terrible for doing that... i am surprised nobody on "your side" isnt calling you out on it.........
and yes i insist that you attack strawman because you insist that atheist have no objective basis for anything, no values, and false beliefs such as material evidence is required for everything thing, nothing exists outside of what we can see, things like that you know....
regarding what matteo said... perhaps you can explain him what he got wrong stan? surely you should be able to do so if you don't attack strawman, right?
ok never mind.... matteo you got it wrong. stan's god is defined as being outside of reality, hence he prefers to use words like actuality to define what exists or not. so his god is 'non-real' in the sense that god is not part of reality, not bound by reality.
moreover matteo, you probably did not read eveything here so you missed the part where i mentionned that i actively reject certain gods. so yes, i do have the positive belief that gods don't exist, but not ALLLLLLL gods. that's the difference.
Eternal,
If you don't mind me asking, what sort of evidence is acceptable?
"you are also correct; i will not attempt to prove that lourdes is false. the only thing i can tell you is that according to me personnal standard of evidence (yes we all have a personal standard, ok? don't deny that) i am unconvinced by the claims. i need more info; all you got is a story."
And there we have it: you have your own standard, undoubtedly based on the axiom void which is Atheism. Why should anyone accept your unstated standard as having any truth value?
"regarding evolution, what you demand is what's done already. there is no exception for biology. you are making one... i would be interested in discussing that actually, if you can stop being enraged about it ;-)"
This kind of childish pissy-ness is getting quite old. Too old to be tolerated. I think you are on your very last legs here.
"so the point is that yes, you are using your blog as some sort of way to constantly re-use the same arguments over and over, proving people wrong, and then pushing them out of your way, claiming victory over their insignificant point of view. if i were a theist who agrees with you, i would still find you terrible for doing that... i am surprised nobody on "your side" isnt calling you out on it.........
Actually I have been called out for being way too lenient with non-arguers like yourself, who are here just to waste time on complaining about how unfair it all is that you might have to provide actual arguments with actual logical premises based on actual axioms and/or physical empirical evidence for your belief system.
"and yes i insist that you attack strawman because you insist that atheist have no objective basis for anything, no values, and false beliefs such as material evidence is required for everything thing, nothing exists outside of what we can see, things like that you know....
Yet while you whine in every comment you make, you do not show any evidence to the contrary. You even admit that Atheism has no axioms, no basis for anything, which means that whatever you believe is not based on any axioms: don't deny this, prove that it is wrong.
"regarding what matteo said... perhaps you can explain him what he got wrong stan? surely you should be able to do so if you don't attack strawman, right?"
It's time to either defend yourself, or hit the road. You are wasting everyone's time. I could be responding to mike3232, who at least has thoughts on the subject.
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moreover matteo, you probably did not read eveything here so you missed the part where i mentionned that i actively reject certain gods. so yes, i do have the positive belief that gods don't exist, but not ALLLLLLL gods. that's the difference."
And still you make no case, just a claim.
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